Sudden Stall Then Hard Start - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old November 13th, 2009, 07:52 PM
artpeck
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Art Peck
1995 NAS D-90
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Sudden Stall Then Hard Start

Here I go again. I have searched the various threads on similar issues but I am still stymied by this problem. NAS '95. 65,000 miles. Third owner car in California. All service done by dealer or land rover experts. (Note that they are not necessarily one and the same as I had a 2006 RR HSE which needed a replacement engine and transmission and the dealer got 2/3rds of the way through the install to then realize they were installing the WRONG engine...but I digress...).

A few months ago the Defender started to be occasionally hard to start typically when restarted when warm. Then more recently it has taken to stalling. A few times while under motion but typically when idling at a stop. It just dies. No warning. No rough running. One second on, the next off. After stalling it will be hard to start but eventually will do so. Runs fine and strong in between these episodes.

Fuel pump relay has been replaced. Stepper motor cleaned and properly reinstalled. Well before this issue new ignition wires were installed. It has also been tuned and the timing set etc (during this issue to pass CA smog) and that made no difference one way or the other. I know I need to determine whether it is getting spark when hard to start but it more often happens where it is hard to get out and start working under the hood. You can hear the relay and fuel pump consistently kick in pre cranking.

My mechanic (who is a good LR experienced shop) basically says it could be many things and would rather not just start replacing shit and has not been able to duplicate it in the shop.

So any thoughts are appreciated. I know there are a lot of similar threads on this but thought this might elicit some news ideas. Thanks.
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  #2  
Old November 15th, 2009, 07:40 PM
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Gren Thomas
1985 90 300tdi auto
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I'd start by replacing the fuel filters, the main one and the pump also tank pickup strainer if fitted.
I have seen the tank strainer choked and partially blocking the pickup pipe all give similar symtoms.
a good check of the fuel lines wont harm especially rubber lines in case they are delaminating under pressure.

have fun

Gren
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  #3  
Old December 16th, 2009, 11:59 PM
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Chris Davis
94 NAS D90 6.2LS
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I am having the EXACT same problem right now. I stalled on the freeway tonight while going 60mph and I coasted to the side of the road--then it would not start. I felt the relay clicking but I just could not tell if the pump was running as the freeway noise was too loud. New fuel filter, so I know that is not it. I too would love to have suggestions. I am very mechanically inclined, but this one has me a little stumped and I don't want to start randomly changing crap. If this happened at home, I could probably diagnose it, but on the side of the freeway at night it is too stressful and dangerous (the shoulder was very narrow where I was parked or I may have tried it). A few minutes later, it started fine and then I drove 30 miles home (with only 1 brief stutter).
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  #4  
Old December 17th, 2009, 12:08 AM
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shane cates
94 d90
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silly idea....but vapor lock? Is it getting fuel during the episodes? Just a thought because I see your both located in areas that may have severe elevation changes in driving.
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  #5  
Old December 17th, 2009, 12:56 AM
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Marc
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[QUOTE=Gren_T]I'd start by replacing the fuel filters, the main one and the pump also tank pickup strainer if fitted.

Yeah I second that, first the easy stuff fuel filter, hoses (plenum, firetrap, etc), air cleaner, a good gas dryer, has solved that problem for me before I started buying more expensive parts randomly.
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Old December 17th, 2009, 01:01 AM
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Chris Davis
94 NAS D90 6.2LS
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I don't think it is vapor lock--the symptoms are not right and it is cold as hell here when I was having these problems. It also happens when warm out, cold engine, hot engine. Multiple RPM's. And when mine dies, it does not stutter, it DIES, BAM, Dead. Sometimes just for a second, sometimes won't restart.

Might be ignition switch. Might be ignition or fuel pump relays. I just think it is more electrical than a pump failing since the engine cut out is immediate, not gradual. I doubt it is my ignition switch since mine is only a year or two old, but stranger things have happened. I just ordered up some relays to see if that is it (or to have them on hand as I have no spares...). Has anyone had this issue before?
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  #7  
Old December 17th, 2009, 08:37 AM
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Charles Galpin
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Being sudden I suspect the relays. I have had similar problems in the past and never figured it out. But after replacing the relays it seems to be gone.
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  #8  
Old December 17th, 2009, 09:48 AM
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Chris Davis
94 NAS D90 6.2LS
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I just took out the relays and popped their covers and they looked totally intact, clean and operational. I ordered a couple new ones last night (BTW, thepartsbin.com has the bosch relays for $12/ea) to use or have a spares since I have been meaning to get them for a long time anyways. I have changed primary fuel filters twice since I had a bunch of new ones laying around. I quite honestly don't expect it to be the fuel filter or the strainer in the tank since it does not cough or sputter, it flat out dies. I also cleaned the stepper motor this morning and the resister by the MAF since those are low hanging fruit. I am about to have a look at my ignition switch.

My guess would be electrical--either ignition switch or relay.
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  #9  
Old December 17th, 2009, 03:45 PM
artpeck
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Art Peck
1995 NAS D-90
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Since I started this...I will add my two cents. I cannot say I have definitively fixed this but it hasn't happen now for several trips. What did I do? Thinking electrical connection I cleaned all the contacts on all the wires connecting to the ignition coil. I then recrimped the wires to make sure the connections were tight. After doing this (and I hope I don't eat these words) I have had no issues. For what it is worth.
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  #10  
Old December 24th, 2009, 09:02 PM
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Chris Davis
94 NAS D90 6.2LS
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None of my cleaning has helped out anything (stepper motor, fuel filter, resistor on air intake, coil wires) as the problem was still there. My new relays came and for 4 days it has been perfect (I replaced both relays at the same time). So far, so good. If it recurrs, I will follow this up, otherwise consider my problem solved.
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  #11  
Old January 16th, 2010, 01:22 AM
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Chris Davis
94 NAS D90 6.2LS
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Problem persists. Yesterday, my tach went out and the battery light came on then 2 minutes later all was normal--and I stalled. So, given those symptoms, I am leaning towards a bad ground. Gonna check them out.
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  #12  
Old January 16th, 2010, 10:38 PM
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Paul Koentges
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enertia switch...not very common

Try pressing your enertia switch to determine if it is partially set. I have had the similar problem; diagnosed at dealer as bad fuel relay, then fuel pump, then after market alarm...all of which were replaced or removed. I found out while driving that by resetting the enrtia switch problem went away. It still happens sometimes...will eventually replace or bypass.
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