Stumped- 300 Tdi running hot- - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old April 23rd, 2014, 08:05 AM
skrufy
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Tim Timmins
1987/Defender 110
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Location: Alpine, Arizona
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Stumped- 300 Tdi running hot-

300 Tdi engine gurus..... a search of the forums didn't come up with any similar issue....

'87 D110 300 Tdi with manual 5 speed. I am fairly new to my D110 with it's 300 Tdi, but have owned my '95 D1 since new, have wrenched on my 911s for -gasp!- 40 years now, and have had my '52 Willys M38A1 Army jeep/matching '51 M100 1/4ton trailer for 38 years now- fully restored- do the parade thing, etc.

I bought my 110 from the PO in Connecticut last year in April 2013, and drove it back to Arizona last May. A family visit put me into Charlotte for a few days in route. Maybe a 100 miles north of there I started to get an overheat indication. A quick inspection revealed the coolant reservoir to be slightly low, but nothing appeared to be overly hot. Temp gage got worse, but nothing spectacular heat wise. Looking for any excuse to impose on the in-laws to the max extent, I honored the indication, and ended up replacing the thermostat and viscous fan clutch. Still indicated hot. Thinking I had one of the rubber impeller water pumps, I put in a new metal vane pump, taking out the metal vaned pump that was already in there- oh well.

The radiator was new, and I flushed out the block, heater core, and radiator too- all clean- no crapola flushed out. Put in all fresh 50/50 coolant. Also installed a $17 mechanical temp gage from Pep Boys- attached the gage to my snorkel, taped up the openings as I was going to be running in the rain for a while, and pressed on to Arizona. Culprit was the $9 temp sender. Again, oh well- cooling system is all new. All was well, ran about 190-192F all the way home.

Last week while running my son to school over in the next town, the thermostat started to open, then closed/got stuck? and the temp stayed in the red zone ( the cheap $17 mechanical gage had lived and died by this time, a short but useful life...). Outside airtemp was just below freezing, the indication didn't get worse, and was almost to school anyway. The thermostat tried to open several more times. I stopped at the local autoparts store, bought a gallon of 50/50 coolant. The engine was definitely getting hot. Carefully took off the res. cap- avoided getting blasted with the initial wave of steam, added coolant, and let the engine cool at idle out of the red and into the normal op zone, which for me in the mountains of eastern Az here, is about one needle width past half way on the LR temp gage. I borrowed the stores "Percussion Presuader" ball peen hammer- and rapped on the t-stat housing a few times, using standard Ford Motor Company procedures... I then pressed on for home, hoping the t-stat would free up some more- it didn't.

About half way back, I stopped, called, and had my wife come tow me home. I didn't want the engine to seize if they have the tendency to do that- I don't know what the 300 Tdi does. The engine was definitely hot, even with shutting it off and coasting down hill.

I let it cool until the next day, and adding coolant to the radiator, block plug by the t-stat housing, and the res to the fill line, all while bleeding the air off the radiator and block. The
300Tdi started right up with a minor "new sound" while cranking, that went away and haven't heard it since. Drove it up hill for a mile, and shazamm! right back into the redzone- shut it off, coasted back down hill right back to my garage.

Now, I'm thinking t-stat and water pump, with the possibility that something is blocking a hose, etc. Take everything apart again, flush everything, put in a new t-stat, waterpump is good- steel vane didn't fall off, no blockage in the hoses, no apparent blockages in the head- no oil in the coolant, no coolant in the oil- so the head gasket should be a-ok as well.
Flushed out the block with full throttle water from the house, then blew out everything with high pressure air, including all coolant from the heater core.

Put everything back together, all fresh coolant, purged the air from the radiator and block port by the t-stat housing. Turned the water pump by hand, trying to maybe move the coolant and purge anymore air for anywhere. Installed the serp.belt. No leaks anywhere.

Putting the coolant into the radiator and block resulted in over filling the reservoir by maybe and inch over the fill mark- no big deal I think, that extra fluid will fill any air pockets remaining, etc.

Cranked the engine, and within several minutes air pressure in the res has increased, the res. sounds like it has boiling liquid in it- I released the air pressure, coolant starts to boil over and out. Shut the engine off. Grab my digital pyrometer (if you don't have one- get one....- very cheap now)- coolant temp is 73F, I siphoned off coolant, the "boiling" continues in the res up until it's 94F, at which time I shut it down under the threat of my dinner getting fed to the dogs.

Air is getting injected into the coolant res- but from where? I siphoned out more coolant to get it down to just below the fill line, and after I shut the engine off, the remaining coolant in the res gets sucked out and down the hoses, leaving an empty reservoir.

What am I missing here? there may be an air pocket in the heater core still, but the t-stat hasn't had the temp to open yet to fill it.

Any words/thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

Tim
Alpine, Az.
Elev.8048ft.
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  #2  
Old April 23rd, 2014, 08:57 AM
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rdavisinva
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Robert Davis
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You need to pull the head as it is probably warped from overheating and have it skimmed flat at a machine shop.
You'll probably see where the head gasket is blown out.
Land Rover claims you shouldn't machine the head, but we have done it a half dozen times without ill effect.
I have had people tell me not to do this and I say what's the difference in adding a little more compression or turning up the boost.
They explain and I laugh and say: "same difference".
Get the no hole thickest head gasket (going by memory, but think that's right) and then replace the head with a new gasket.
You'll also need to replace the "P"gasket as it will probably leak as a result of the coolant system pressurization you are suffering.

This should fix your problem.

Not to open some long debate, but how do you know when the thermostat is opening and closing?
Could you see a drop in the temperature?

You can go to eGauges.com and get a decent temp gauge, or PM me as we have a cache of excellent temp gauges at a very reasonable price.
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  #3  
Old April 23rd, 2014, 09:58 AM
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Julien Dalbin
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Check that the purge hose, the small one, is not blocked.
You also need a gauge that will give you a precise reading of your temp, even after problem is solved it will allow you a precise monitoring.
Pulling the head on the 300 is a breeze comparing to the bloody 4.6, just make sure you have anything at hand.
Cheers
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  #4  
Old April 23rd, 2014, 01:07 PM
skrufy
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Tim Timmins
1987/Defender 110
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Robert and Julien-

Thanks for the inputs. I will go out and check the purge line for blockage- I forgot to check that small one..... Robert, as far as telling about the opening/closing of the t-stat, it was a cold morning- I can see the needle drop when the t-stat opens, and also with the heater. It was blowing ice cold air, and then warm for a few minutes, then icy cold again. I was thinking about adding another mechanical gage and mounting it somewhere inside that would look good, or perhaps someone makes one with a digital readout that wouldn't require a fair amount of mounting issues in order for it to look good, etc... and not some on-the-fly make-it-functional mount like I had on the snorkel just to get home from the east coast...

Robert, do you have a part number for the thick head gasket you are talking about? By "no hole" head gasket, do you mean you have to carefully cut the holes in the gasket? Where to buy- AB, or Rover's North, or maybe RDS? The 'P' gasket as well- any other parts supplies needed, or anything else that should be replaced/updated, while I have everything apart?

Will look at eGuages to see what you are talking about. Would like to keep the stock look for all the gages if possible.

Thank again-

tim
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  #5  
Old April 23rd, 2014, 01:22 PM
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rdavisinva
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Robert Davis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skrufy View Post
Robert and Julien- Thanks for the inputs.
Thank again-
tim
Tim:
I'll PM you my number, you need to discuss your cooling system and head gasket.
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #6  
Old April 23rd, 2014, 03:56 PM
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JFD
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Julien Dalbin
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In case you pull the head, this is where I got my stuff last time I did it:

http://www.turnerengineering.co.uk/acatalog/300Tdi.html

But nowadays you can get plenty Tdi stuff on US continental.

Cheers
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  #7  
Old April 23rd, 2014, 08:40 PM
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Mike
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They make three or four different thickness head gaskets. I believe the no hole gasket is the thickest. There is a measurement to figure how far the piston protrudes from the block to determine what size gasket you need. Robert know his stuff on the diesels so I would listen to him.
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