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  #21  
Old April 29th, 2015, 10:12 PM
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Finally....finally....I think its figured out.

While the amplifier is only about 30k on it, replacing it magically results in a reliable start. Time to secure the new unit on to the truck having proven the issue, add a second ground strap, and maybe even an extra heat sink. If the latest parts are going to have a short shelf life, thats not going to make me happy.
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A friend of mine runs a land rover / range rover specialty repair shop. Based on his experience, they are capable of stopping anywhere, anytime, at any cost.

I don't know about the brakes, only their unreliability.
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  #22  
Old April 29th, 2015, 10:23 PM
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Perhaps you'll want to consider installing the amplifier relocation kit
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  #23  
Old April 30th, 2015, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
Finally....finally....I think its figured out. While the amplifier is only about 30k on it, replacing it magically results in a reliable start. Time to secure the new unit on to the truck having proven the issue, add a second ground strap, and maybe even an extra heat sink. If the latest parts are going to have a short shelf life, thats not going to make me happy.
Is your amp on the dizzy or up by the coil?
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  #24  
Old April 30th, 2015, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rangerover View Post
Perhaps you'll want to consider installing the amplifier relocation kit
Quote:
Originally Posted by leastonce View Post
Is your amp on the dizzy or up by the coil?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rangerover View Post
Perhaps you'll want to consider installing the amplifier relocation kit
It already was up hidden safely away by the coil, by the booster.

Really makes me question the "quality" of some of the parts out there.

Wonder if WR is a fated event for me.

My alternator was dying all the way up to the pre run but lasted enough to get me home despite putting out 18 volts from time to time. The amp started to go into failed mode and wouldn't start on that cold frozen Saturday morning during WR but mysteriously worked long enough to get me home.
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A friend of mine runs a land rover / range rover specialty repair shop. Based on his experience, they are capable of stopping anywhere, anytime, at any cost.

I don't know about the brakes, only their unreliability.
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  #25  
Old May 31st, 2015, 09:35 PM
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Argghhh

So - after the massive rainstorm, by truck wouldn't start ....

After cranking the engine over for an excessive amount of time, it started sputtering and after an even longer time cranking it finally caught ....

So, what-ever my last fix was, the rain seems to still kill the car from starting ... Can there be water getting into the fuel system? And if so would that be it?

Where else can there be getting wet that stops the engine from catching when its clearly cranking over?
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  #26  
Old May 31st, 2015, 10:27 PM
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I can't imagine water in the fuel system a all. You would have many other issues if that was the case.

When the truck finally fires, does it run smoothly through the entire "driving" rpm range?
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  #27  
Old June 1st, 2015, 05:23 AM
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We're both struggling with similar issues. But right now I've still got to find the time to pull and replace my starter. I'm even considering the throttle position sensor as a potential cause.
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A friend of mine runs a land rover / range rover specialty repair shop. Based on his experience, they are capable of stopping anywhere, anytime, at any cost.

I don't know about the brakes, only their unreliability.
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  #28  
Old June 1st, 2015, 06:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sad_story View Post
So - after the massive rainstorm, by truck wouldn't start ....

After cranking the engine over for an excessive amount of time, it started sputtering and after an even longer time cranking it finally caught ....

So, what-ever my last fix was, the rain seems to still kill the car from starting ... Can there be water getting into the fuel system? And if so would that be it?

Where else can there be getting wet that stops the engine from catching when its clearly cranking over?
its the amp module. maybe the wiring has a fault? maybe change to the Delco one
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  #29  
Old June 1st, 2015, 04:50 PM
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I am the least likely to be really helpful, but I feel as I have recently been facing this issue some. I added new plugs and wires. Eventually I added a new dizzy. My truck would sit in an uncovered garage and after rains on humid days it would not want to fire. If it did fire it might run really really rough for a bit. Anyway, the icing on cake was one day, I took it to the car wash. I left it running, and went to spray it off. I started to drive home and it felt like it was on 3 cylinders. New dizzy cap and those problems went away.... Until.

I drove it in a parade in the heat with no air blowing up under it. Got home, and parked it for a few weeks. I then jumped back in it to drive my son to a practice and half way there it died, and really died. I fought this for a long time and even the best local rover guy was stumped. It kept wanting to fire, but just would not. Anyway, I had replaced the amplifier, but did not use any of the heat sink stuff behind it. The heat and parade killed the amp. Make sure you use that heat sink crap no matter what.
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  #30  
Old June 1st, 2015, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leastonce View Post
The connection to the ECU is probably the problem.

It runs from the -ve side of the coil, via the chicklet near the MAF and onto the ECU. If this connection is problematic ( high resistance when damp ) then the ECU won't fire the injectors. They only get fired when the ECU gets this spark signal and knows the engine is therefore running.

This voltage should be about 9 volts. It's a pulse from the spark so easiest to test it with a probe with a light ... you should see it pulse with the engine running.

see 15 on the diagram ... it's a white wire with black tracer and goes to pin 39 on the ECU. The zigzag represents the chicklet resistor.
thank you, but "you should see it pulse with the engine running" makes for a chicken and egg situation if I cannot get the car started when its wet.. Unless I misunderstood.
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  #31  
Old June 1st, 2015, 08:06 PM
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You should see it pulse with the engine turning over ...

If it isn't look at the roll over switch. Another member had wet start issue and he found the switch was filling with water as the cap was loose and debris in the drain channel funneled water into it.
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Soapy water / KY jelly, etc. is is basically a must. Yes, good idea to remove trim panels - only takes 5 more minutes to do so.
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  #32  
Old June 1st, 2015, 10:00 PM
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Diagnostic Board

I don't know if this is relevant, but if the ignition key is in the "on" position, should the On board Diagnostic display be on?

And if it is not, could the car still function?



Quote:
Originally Posted by leastonce View Post
You should see it pulse with the engine turning over ...

If it isn't look at the roll over switch. Another member had wet start issue and he found the switch was filling with water as the cap was loose and debris in the drain channel funneled water into it.

I think that was me .... I fixed that and the car started, but have not been in significant rain since then until yesterday.

------ Follow up post added June 1st, 2015 06:05 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by rangerover View Post
Perhaps you'll want to consider installing the amplifier relocation kit
If that was for me (OP) - Prior owner already had that installed



Quote:
Originally Posted by o2batsea View Post
its the amp module. maybe the wiring has a fault? maybe change to the Delco one

Ordering a new amp module, dizzy and distributor ignition coil. .. Mights as well car about to roll 100k.

thank you all for the help, I'll let you know how/if this works ..... Of course there will probably be no way of knowing until I'm stuck (again)
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  #33  
Old June 1st, 2015, 10:18 PM
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If you disconnect the battery you should see a 02 on the display when you connect it back up. Otherwise it doesn't display unless there is a fault.
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Quote:
Soapy water / KY jelly, etc. is is basically a must. Yes, good idea to remove trim panels - only takes 5 more minutes to do so.
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  #34  
Old June 2nd, 2015, 12:34 AM
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If this helps..
My last no start issue (would crank forever) was the ignition module. I plug in my old one and all is good. I replaced as preventative and it failed
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  #35  
Old June 3rd, 2015, 12:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlynch356 View Post
If this helps..
My last no start issue (would crank forever) was the ignition module. I plug in my old one and all is good. I replaced as preventative and it failed
Rlynch, sorry so you put the new one, had issues, then installed the old one and that worked? ... Are you recommending buying the one in the link?

A few quesitosn, what does the ignition module do? Where is the ignition module located? Could it possibly getting wet when the car is sitting still?

EDIT: Wait, got it - Ignition module is the "amplifier" - sorry im a newb
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  #36  
Old June 3rd, 2015, 12:35 AM
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I replaced my old one - due to age (it was fine) and the new one died after a long drive and symptoms of not starting (Cranking forever).. yep the It is the amplifier...
i put the old one back in and bingo, it starts and runs fine...

this was the second new one that died.. so frankly i don't think they are up to snuff. could be your problem and its something you should carry along with the 2 silver relays in the passenger side box..

mine is next to the Coil on the left side of the engine compartment - 2 screws and 2 connectors - about 5 minutes of work to swap them out. I also have a 95' ST
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  #37  
Old June 3rd, 2015, 12:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlynch356 View Post
I replaced my old one - due to age (it was fine) and the new one died after a long drive and symptoms of not starting (Cranking forever).. yep the It is the amplifier...
i put the old one back in and bingo, it starts and runs fine...

this was the second new one that died.. so frankly i don't think they are up to snuff. could be your problem and its something you should carry along with the 2 silver relays in the passenger side box..

mine is next to the Coil on the left side of the engine compartment - 2 screws and 2 connectors - about 5 minutes of work to swap them out. I also have a 95' ST

Ahh the infamous passenger side box I kept looking for for hours, only to realize that with an AC installed, i don't have one per se.... LOL

yes, mine was moved too, i believe by previous owners (through eastcoast rovers), to the left of the engine compartment. (I spoke to Atlantic British: they are trying to tell me I'm better off buying the whole replacement relocation kit instead of just the AMP so that I can renew/replace the raggedy wires from the old install)
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  #38  
Old June 3rd, 2015, 05:29 AM
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The bizarre thing about the first time starting became an issue is that it was the morning after I drove to WR with temps sub freezing. Even when driving on the interstate under hood temps in those conditions couldn't have been high. But then it started without problems after that until I got home.
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A friend of mine runs a land rover / range rover specialty repair shop. Based on his experience, they are capable of stopping anywhere, anytime, at any cost.

I don't know about the brakes, only their unreliability.
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  #39  
Old June 11th, 2015, 12:47 PM
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So, got my $700 order from British Atlantic...

waited for the good weather, car started right up.. drove t a friends garage in BKLYN.

Installed:

1) new plugs
2) new ignition wires
3) new rotor
4) new distributor cap

did a quick fire up test ... nothing ... DAMN!!! well it was a wet drive over, i begin to think I'm just suffering from what-ever is/was wrong from before. Against my better judgement, I decide to continue, figuring (read hoping) it will all resolve itself

5) new coil
6) new amp
7) new wire distributor cap to amp
8) new wire distributor cap to coil


Movement of truth ... Engine whirs and turns over and over...nothing ...

wire connections - check
spark - check
firing sequence - check ...

nothing ... Its a school night, fire up the motorcycle ride home.. next day call a mechanic, need to get the truck towed ... $300 later ... so we towed it ($120) and then started working checking all the resistances and continuity coil to cap, plug to cap, coil and amp tested in another truck ($180).. Nothing, the guy call me .. "dude WTF??" he asks me. I ask him if his guy checked the sequence, yes... then after about a 5min talk with him about what else we can try he starts laughing .. his mechanic has walked up to him, sequence was right, but everything was offset by one notch when I put on the new cap and transferred the wires ....

Duh ...


Truck up and running .... now we'll have to wait till rain or winter to see if the original problem has been fixed
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  #40  
Old June 11th, 2015, 01:06 PM
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Or have it running, use a handheld water sprayer, turn to stream, and spray around at strategic points and see if it begins to stumble. Sometimes that can help pinpoint.

Dude I'd offered to help! You could have used either my expertise (ask Jymmiejamz) or one of my tows for free.
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