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  #1  
Old September 15th, 2014, 10:33 AM
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Charles Galpin
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Starter issue

Need opinions on a starter issue which is a first for me. When you turn the key to the start position you get a solenoid click but no engagement of the gear or turning of the starter. If while someone is holding the key in the start position you short the constant 12v post to the starter motor post, the starter turns and the hear engages and everything works as normal.

Bad solenoid?

Somehow mis-wired?

something seems amiss, because iirc on my truck I can put the key in the run position and do the same trick with a screwdriver and it will start. Only one person needed.
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  #2  
Old September 15th, 2014, 10:40 AM
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Bad solenoid?

Based on your description, it would seem so.
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  #3  
Old September 15th, 2014, 04:20 PM
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Use a second solenoid to take battery power from the battery direct to the starter solenoid

So starter signal from starter redirected to energize a second solenoid. That solenoid has a path from the battery to the starter solenoid.

That will overcome the electromagnetic resistance in the circuit. Much like jumping power right at the starter.
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  #4  
Old September 15th, 2014, 04:32 PM
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try simple things first. reasons for starter solenoid engagements for me in past are:

1) loose/corroded terminal for main positive lead to starter,
2) bad solenoid trigger spade connector. I just had to replace mine last week due to intermittent connection
3) bad ground on t-case


check those first before you F with anything else. 9 out of 10 times it's one of those
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  #5  
Old September 15th, 2014, 04:41 PM
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Good advice. Am guessing they have new ground cables from battery to the engine from following the thread. But those circuits Power cable to the starter motor and ground cable to the starter motor are very important as Mark pointed out. Maybe even a new wire from the ignition switch to the starter solenoid can test that circuit.

But often times the current needed for the starter is best supplied as I described when the problems they describe are present.
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Old September 15th, 2014, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgalpin View Post
Need opinions on a starter issue which is a first for me. When you turn the key to the start position you get a solenoid click but no engagement of the gear or turning of the starter. If while someone is holding the key in the start position you short the constant 12v post to the starter motor post, the starter turns and the hear engages and everything works as normal.
I'm assuming this isn't your truck

Is there a relay in the wiring harness between the ignition switch and the solenoid? If not, there could be a poor enough connection in the ignition switch to prevent the solenoid from pushing all the way to switch on the starter.

It's possible that the starter only engaging when the key is in the start position is also an issue.
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  #7  
Old September 15th, 2014, 05:08 PM
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I'm with Mark!

"1) loose/corroded terminal for main positive lead to starter"

same happend to me!

Good part:

it's not expensive!
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  #8  
Old September 15th, 2014, 08:41 PM
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Well, it could be any of those things. Not sure how much time we will have to try things though. Most time we will have will be at the conclave

The grounds are still crappy. Old negative lead to frame, contacts on frame side not even cleaned. Never got to a ground wire to transfer case. Ground from engine block to frame is old.

But, on the other issues, doesn't a click from the solenoid indicate it's getting the "exciter" signal just fine? And doesn't the fact I can short 12v from the main post to the other one mean the ground is adequate? I'm not adding any grounding.

As far as an external solenoid goes, don't they have to be pretty beefy, and I am not sure where we could get one quickly?
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  #9  
Old September 15th, 2014, 09:24 PM
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just check, remove and clean the two wire connections attaching to your solenoid. if I only had time for one thing, thats what I'd do
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  #10  
Old September 15th, 2014, 09:41 PM
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yeah...but it clicks - then "whirs" but doesn't engage! Isn't this a starter - not solenoid issue....it only "engages" when jumped. So does that mean not enough power hitting the starter?
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Old September 15th, 2014, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
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yeah...but it clicks - then "whirs" but doesn't engage! Isn't this a starter - not solenoid issue....it only "engages" when jumped. So does that mean not enough power hitting the starter?
Was just thinking the same thing.

I'm curious, what about giving the starter a few taps from a hammer and see what happens?
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  #12  
Old September 15th, 2014, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rankar View Post
I'm curious, what about giving the starter a few taps from a hammer and see what happens?

Those were the FIRST words out of Jonesy's mouth yesterday
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  #13  
Old September 15th, 2014, 10:32 PM
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It was tapped lightly - tough spot to get to. Nothing happens on the turn of the key other than a click. Shorting the connections spins the motor only. Both the key (excitor) and shorting connectors simultaneously are required to start.

I should have mentioned that those connections are just made yesterday. Did whomever connected them clean them first?
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  #14  
Old September 15th, 2014, 11:50 PM
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Well in the interest of trying to make it a one man affair. Just run a wire from the starter exciter connection into the battery box. Kent can touch it to the battery to get it started by himself without need of assistance. He could even rig up a temporary switch until the circuit can be sorted out correctly.

A new negative battery cable from tractor supply or a farm store outlet seems like the next move. Get it extra long so you can run it to on of the engine bellhousing bolts. But it may still need the extra solenoid I described. You just ask for a starter solenoid for a late 80's or early 90's Ford pickup truck F150 or 250 Should be less then 20 dollars. Be sure to ground the case of the solenoid well so it will work correctly. It is just supplying a strong signal current to the original starter solenoid. It does not need to be pretty beefy. The Ford truck solenoid will work fine in this situation.

If the starter is just turning and not engaging, it may eventually clean itself up and start working correctly. The rubber hammer method could help it along until it sorts itself out. But if it does not have good ground connection and power connection from the battery it will eventually damage the starter and will have to be repaired.

I am sure you guys will get it sorted. Rather small issue compared to all the progress you have been making.
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  #15  
Old September 16th, 2014, 07:44 AM
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I'll add a ground and check connections. Worst case I like the redneck remote idea come to think of it the battery voltage was pretty low too. I will try jump starting it now that I have it parked face in.
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  #16  
Old September 16th, 2014, 08:00 PM
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I cleaned all connections on the existing ground and the positive cable both at the starter and the cutoff switch, and added a new ground at the transmission. No real difference other than with persistence I can get it to start in about 1/10 tries. I am convinced it's a bad solenoid.

I will do one more check when I can get a helper, which is to check the voltage on the spade connector. If I consistently get 12v there then I have no doubts.
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