Spring Cones - Where to get? - Page 2 - Defender Source
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  #21  
Old March 7th, 2011, 09:23 AM
dchapman
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Cones are pretty much useless anyway, no matter what shock you have.

But, no, if you have standard +2 OME shocks, you're not gaining any articulation with cones.

Buy the EE spring retainers, and some spring isolators.
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  #22  
Old March 7th, 2011, 10:03 AM
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Carl Jonsson
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It would be even more helpful if you described why they are useless.

I got terrafirma spring retainers. Twice as thick as stock.
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  #23  
Old March 7th, 2011, 11:14 AM
dchapman
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I don't know anything about the Terrafirma retainers or how thick they are, but why would you have retainers and cones?

I'm guessing you have only lower retainers. That's a start. Now get some upper retainers and ditch the cones.

Comparing cones vs retainers is a never ending debate. It's like debating a Detroit lockers vs an ARB. Just do a search here, on Dweb, LRR, etc.. Here is a start:
http://discoweb.org/forums/showthread.php?t=13818
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  #24  
Old March 8th, 2011, 08:28 PM
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Carl Jonsson
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Ok, you've got me convinced.

The EE Spring Retainers you linked to, are those for the rear only? What spring retainers do you use in the front then?

The Terrafirma retainers are on the bottom to hold down the spring. The cone is on top.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dchapman View Post
I don't know anything about the Terrafirma retainers or how thick they are, but why would you have retainers and cones?

I'm guessing you have only lower retainers. That's a start. Now get some upper retainers and ditch the cones.

Comparing cones vs retainers is a never ending debate. It's like debating a Detroit lockers vs an ARB. Just do a search here, on Dweb, LRR, etc.. Here is a start:
http://discoweb.org/forums/showthread.php?t=13818
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  #25  
Old March 9th, 2011, 01:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manimal View Post
It would be even more helpful if you described why they are useless.
The cones are there to guide the spring back into the top seat if the axle drops enough to unseat the spring. If your shocks (or any other part of the suspension) limits the travel of the axle so that the springs never unseat from the top, then the cones are doing nothing.

Well, that's not entirely true. They're bolted to Land Rover, so they're probably rusting...

X-Engineering has a slick alternative to cones and retainers -- X_Spring
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  #26  
Old March 9th, 2011, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manimal View Post
The EE Spring Retainers you linked to, are those for the rear only? What spring retainers do you use in the front then?
Yes, rear only. They fit the top and bottom. They're kind of a bitch to get the top one mounted, but once they are it's a nice design.

For the front, I don't know what to tell you. I've never had an issue with the fronts popping out, so I've never retained a front spring.

A good addition to the front spring, though, is a set of D2 rubber securing rings. These will dampen some of the road noises, plus they don't rust to pieces.
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  #27  
Old March 10th, 2011, 09:17 AM
JohnC
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Originally Posted by dchapman View Post
These will dampen some of the road noises, plus they don't rust to pieces.
Really?? I have a set that are falling apart. They were on my wife's 96 DI for 5 years.
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  #28  
Old March 11th, 2011, 01:04 AM
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Originally Posted by ipgregory View Post
No problem Tom.

Like Scott if you know what the noise is then you can use it as an indicator to tell you what is going on. If the cones are designed/installed right and don't rub during normal flex then it is mostly only going to make a noise when your spring unseats and rubs against the cone on it's way down or up. So it 'should' only happen when your really flexing off road. During normal driving they shouldn't make much if any noise at all. The benfit being that you can have greater articulation without having to run a crazy lift. Doesn't lift the body of course but I think that's overated or even undesirable in most cases anyway as long as your tires fit under your fenders.....

Clark, I am not a 'spring engineer' by any means but just thinking of the way most springs work. Most springs are designed to work in a given direction. Either compression or extension. Some are designed for both of course but I don't think our suspension springs are. If you take a spring designed for compression and stretch it, you weaken it. It stretches from it's previous shape. Obviously our suspension springs are pretty tough and we are not stretching them that much, but over time I expect that we are weakening them if we keep stretching them.

The other problem with retainers for me is the limiting factor. They limit the amount of droop that your suspension may otherwise be capable of and they decrease the amount of pressure your wheel could be capable of placing on the ground and therfore your traction. A fully extended wheel may only have the weight of the unsprung components to provide down pressure but that still provides more traction than a wheel held off the ground or made lighter by the spring. It's only a matter of small degrees here of course, but sometimes that can make all the difference.

Just my $0.02c worth of course....
Without rehashing all the details, something is going to stop that axle. Springs, shocks, brakelines, link binding, ect. Of all those, a retained spring would be my choice.

Actually, my choice would be a limit strap, but of the options listed, spring. I doubt you can hurt them very much.
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  #29  
Old March 11th, 2011, 01:10 AM
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Buck, that would be in the rear then, right? It doesn't appear that there is the same need to retain the springs in the front (only at the bottom of the coils).

I think Ian has a point. I'm going to ask ARB about spring stretch. I left my old springs stretched out while jacked up for 2-3 days and I think they may have deformed because after that I noticed a severe tilt in the rear of the vehicle. That is partly why I'm swapping them out for new ones. I could be wrong, there's also a slight chance that the previous owner mixed up the A and B springs and I hadn't noticed before. I can't know for sure since the labels are gone.

ARB told me the cones are pointless because the OME shocks will never let the coil drop out.
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