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  #1  
Old September 1st, 2014, 06:50 PM
bkgonefishin
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brent
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smoking like James. bond.

ello,
I need some help. I have read lots on here and tried fixing a bunch of things. In doing so. i have spent a small fortune. here is where i sit.

I have a 1985 110 that had a NA motor. I replaced it with a used 200tdi from a defender. the motor ran good. It did not have a fan though. I read that you can run with out them so i did and all was fine until i entered in a pay n play area and my engine heated up and the lower radiator hose busted loose and all my coolant ran out. i drove it to the parking lot, put some water in it but did not have enough so i drove it a few miles to get water at a friends house. I know i should not have. anyway. it ran fine after that but i only drove it to work and back. I then took it for a hour drive and it started overheating. I added an electric fan and that helped. I then took it for a drive to germany (12hrs) and it overheated going up the hills in the alps but i would kick the fan on and it would cool down. when i got to Germany a few days later it started smoking when it was cold. it is a white smoke that stops after about a minute or two down the road. also, it is losing coolant but does not leak. after researching the forums, i initially thought i blew the headgasket. so i replaced it. that did not fix it so i thought I may have cracked the head. i have to use the truck to get back and forth from work so i bought a second hand head that was skimmed and pressure tested. I installed it with another new gasket and I replaced the valve stem oil seals. still have the smoke but the coolant problem seems to be fixed. after some more reading on the forums i thought that maybe the injectors were bad so i bought new nozzles and rebuilt all the injectors. i did gain some more power back but it still smokes like james bond when i drive down the street and the engine is cold. I also replaced all the glow plugs when i put the new head on and they are getting power. There is some blow by as evident when i remove the oil filler cap there is some air/smoke blowing out of the valve cover. I also found oil in the hose going into the turbo. I grabbed the turbo vains and was able to wiggle it back and forth and side to side so i assume that it probably needs to be rebuilt as well. My next guess is to start messing with the timing although I replaced the timing belt about a year ago. I know this is a long post but wanted to include the details that i could think of off the top of my head. It also smokes black smoke under load going up hill or when i floor it.
1985 Land Rover 110 2.5 n/a
S
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  #2  
Old September 1st, 2014, 07:00 PM
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Chris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkgonefishin View Post
ello,
I need some help. I have read lots on here and tried fixing a bunch of things. In doing so. i have spent a small fortune. here is where i sit.

I have a 1985 110 that had a NA motor. I replaced it with a used 200tdi from a defender. the motor ran good. It did not have a fan though. I read that you can run with out them so i did and all was fine until i entered in a pay n play area and my engine heated up and the lower radiator hose busted loose and all my coolant ran out. i drove it to the parking lot, put some water in it but did not have enough so i drove it a few miles to get water at a friends house. I know i should not have.

anyway. it ran fine after that but i only drove it to work and back. I then took it for a hour drive and it started overheating. I added an electric fan and that helped. I then took it for a drive to germany (12hrs) and it overheated going up the hills in the alps but i would kick the fan on and it would cool down.

when i got to Germany a few days later it started smoking when it was cold. it is a white smoke that stops after about a minute or two down the road. also, it is losing coolant but does not leak. after researching the forums, i initially thought i blew the headgasket. so i replaced it. that did not fix it so i thought I may have cracked the head. i have to use the truck to get back and forth from work so i bought a second hand head that was skimmed and pressure tested. I installed it with another new gasket and I replaced the valve stem oil seals.

still have the smoke but the coolant problem seems to be fixed. after some more reading on the forums i thought that maybe the injectors were bad so i bought new nozzles and rebuilt all the injectors. i did gain some more power back but it still smokes like james bond when i drive down the street and the engine is cold.

I also replaced all the glow plugs when i put the new head on and they are getting power. There is some blow by as evident when i remove the oil filler cap there is some air/smoke blowing out of the valve cover. I also found oil in the hose going into the turbo. I grabbed the turbo vains and was able to wiggle it back and forth and side to side so i assume that it probably needs to be rebuilt as well.

My next guess is to start messing with the timing although I replaced the timing belt about a year ago. I know this is a long post but wanted to include the details that i could think of off the top of my head. It also smokes black smoke under load going up hill or when i floor it.
1985 Land Rover 110 2.5 n/a
S

I'd add some paragraphs or some semblance of them.
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  #3  
Old September 1st, 2014, 07:16 PM
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Thank you.
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  #4  
Old September 1st, 2014, 07:46 PM
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He's probably a novel writer.
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  #5  
Old September 1st, 2014, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkgonefishin View Post
ello, I need some help. I have read lots on here and tried fixing a bunch of things. In doing so. i have spent a small fortune. here is where i sit. I have a 1985 110 that had a NA motor. I replaced it with a used 200tdi from a defender. the motor ran good. It did not have a fan though. I read that you can run with out them so i did and all was fine until i entered in a pay n play area and my engine heated up and the lower radiator hose busted loose and all my coolant ran out. i drove it to the parking lot, put some water in it but did not have enough so i drove it a few miles to get water at a friends house. I know i should not have. anyway. it ran fine after that but i only drove it to work and back. I then took it for a hour drive and it started overheating. I added an electric fan and that helped. I then took it for a drive to germany (12hrs) and it overheated going up the hills in the alps but i would kick the fan on and it would cool down. when i got to Germany a few days later it started smoking when it was cold. it is a white smoke that stops after about a minute or two down the road. also, it is losing coolant but does not leak. after researching the forums, i initially thought i blew the headgasket. so i replaced it. that did not fix it so i thought I may have cracked the head. i have to use the truck to get back and forth from work so i bought a second hand head that was skimmed and pressure tested. I installed it with another new gasket and I replaced the valve stem oil seals. still have the smoke but the coolant problem seems to be fixed. after some more reading on the forums i thought that maybe the injectors were bad so i bought new nozzles and rebuilt all the injectors. i did gain some more power back but it still smokes like james bond when i drive down the street and the engine is cold. I also replaced all the glow plugs when i put the new head on and they are getting power. There is some blow by as evident when i remove the oil filler cap there is some air/smoke blowing out of the valve cover. I also found oil in the hose going into the turbo. I grabbed the turbo vains and was able to wiggle it back and forth and side to side so i assume that it probably needs to be rebuilt as well. My next guess is to start messing with the timing although I replaced the timing belt about a year ago. I know this is a long post but wanted to include the details that i could think of off the top of my head. It also smokes black smoke under load going up hill or when i floor it. 1985 Land Rover 110 2.5 n/a S

What color is the smoke? (Not when you floor it, as it's running rich then)
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  #6  
Old September 1st, 2014, 08:34 PM
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First off, driving an engine that has lost it's coolant is the worst idea in the long history of bad ideas. It is never an option in my opinion. Second, not running a fan is like driving without an insurance policy. You never need it until you need it, then you realy need it, and you did.

With that said, all your remaining symptoms sure sound like your cyclonic breather separator is clogged. oil in intake, smoke coming out of the oil cap. Soak it overnight in benzine or replace it, and see where you land.

And for God sake, put a fan on. Aluminum heads don't like heat at all.
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  #7  
Old September 1st, 2014, 08:47 PM
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The blow by is because you ran the truck without coolant and got it so hot that you changed the metallurgy of the rings. Ie they lost their outward tension against the cyl walls. My guess is that you are rolling coal on grades etc because the compression is down. Suggest you borrow or lease a compression tester that screws into the glow plug holes. You should be over 400 psi on all 4 cyls.
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  #8  
Old September 1st, 2014, 09:27 PM
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Compression test is a great idea. I always prefer a leak down test. Beside compression, it shows how well the cylinder holds that compression or if it seeps out.
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  #9  
Old September 2nd, 2014, 01:58 AM
bkgonefishin
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brent
85 110 w/200tdi
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Thanks Rocky 4 fixing my long paragraph. It was midnight and I was pretty tired from working on cars all day.

arcadius, the smoke is black and I do not have to give it that much gas either. The smoke is white in the morning.

Overland, thanks for the news flash. I appreciate the recommendation about the beater but have already cleaned it when I replaced the head. I have a fan now. It is electric, has a temp controlled switch and an override switch.

I have a compression tester but will have to buy an adapter to neck it down to glow plug size. I will check that next. Is 400 psi right? I have read a few posts where folks say they had 70 psi and we're good. Please advise.
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  #10  
Old September 2nd, 2014, 07:54 AM
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shayne young
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70 is low for a gas engine... But knackered for a diesel..
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  #11  
Old September 2nd, 2014, 08:06 AM
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Rick Newman
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Put the 2.5 na back in and get use to going slow.
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  #12  
Old September 2nd, 2014, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkgonefishin View Post
Thanks Rocky 4 fixing my long paragraph. It was midnight and I was pretty tired from working on cars all day.

arcadius, the smoke is black and I do not have to give it that much gas either. The smoke is white in the morning.

Overland, thanks for the news flash. I appreciate the recommendation about the beater but have already cleaned it when I replaced the head. I have a fan now. It is electric, has a temp controlled switch and an override switch.

I have a compression tester but will have to buy an adapter to neck it down to glow plug size. I will check that next. Is 400 psi right? I have read a few posts where folks say they had 70 psi and we're good. Please advise.
Diesel's are whats known as compression start engines. Ie compression is so high that when diesel is atomized by the injector the compression is so high it combust's.

A weed eater or chainsaw won't even run @ 70. I know of no diesel engine that will run @ 70psi.
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  #13  
Old September 2nd, 2014, 08:51 AM
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i second a leakdown as a requirement for buying / evaluating an engine. but it's only a must imho after a passed compression test.

obvious point, i suppose. if the compression test fails, there's not much point
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Old September 2nd, 2014, 01:07 PM
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70 psi wouldn't even move the crank.
Think about the compression ratio.
Given that the science community recognizes normal atmospheric pressure to be 14.7 psi, a compression ration of 10:1 would give you 147 psi.

I also think 400 psi would be a little high. Your compression ration is most likely about 19:1 giving you about 240 psi on a compression test.
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  #15  
Old September 2nd, 2014, 01:29 PM
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I do work on these for a living, and stand by the 400 psi standard as what you should be looking for. 24bar (340psi) is considered a standard but that is a non turbo figure. I think the 70psi the op refers to is what Land Rover considers acceptable variance between highest and lowest cylinders.

Here is some good reading

http://forum.landrovernet.com/showth...s-for-a-200tdi

or

http://forum.difflock.com/viewtopic....2a5d3ccef8a442

Another test I'd suggest to the op is to pull the dipstick and put your thumb over the tube and have someone work the throttle butterfly. Is there significant pressure pushing on your thumb @ any point ?
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Old September 2nd, 2014, 08:05 PM
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It is pretty easy to pull the head. That would be a good start and then you will be able to have a look at everything. You can have the head checked and or re-built. You can have a good look at the pistons and see how they look. It might be obvious what the problem is once the head if off.
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Old September 2nd, 2014, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Milks View Post
It is pretty easy to pull the head. That would be a good start and then you will be able to have a look at everything. You can have the head checked and or re-built. You can have a good look at the pistons and see how they look. It might be obvious what the problem is once the head if off.
Mike- read his original post. He's had the head off a couple of times.
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  #18  
Old September 3rd, 2014, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Douglas View Post
I do work on these for a living, and stand by the 400 psi standard as what you should be looking for. 24bar (340psi) is considered a standard but that is a non turbo figure. I think the 70psi the op refers to is what Land Rover considers acceptable variance between highest and lowest cylinders. Here is some good reading http://forum.landrovernet.com/showth...s-for-a-200tdi or http://forum.difflock.com/viewtopic....2a5d3ccef8a442 Another test I'd suggest to the op is to pull the dipstick and put your thumb over the tube and have someone work the throttle butterfly. Is there significant pressure pushing on your thumb @ any point ?
My mistake. I was basing it off of DCR or dynamic compression, not static. An engine with 19:1 piston should theoretically produce 279.3 psi.

Figuring in cam profile, valve position during sweep from BDC and TDC, head volume, will all come into play. So, I would say 340psi would be realistic.

I've never done a compression check on my Tdi, but I have on my petrol engines after build and run in.

My bike with 10:1 pistons was running 184psi which equates to 12.5:1 because of cam profile. It also had a 1% leak down which anything under 3 is considered great. Harley, I believe says anything under 7% for a factory build.
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Old September 3rd, 2014, 06:33 AM
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OK, What I meant to say was when you pull the head again....take it to a shop and have it pressure tested for cracks. They can also check to see if it is warped. If the head is bad you should be able to find a replacement in the UK. (turner engineering for one)
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Old September 3rd, 2014, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Milks View Post
OK, What I meant to say was when you pull the head again....take it to a shop and have it pressure tested for cracks. They can also check to see if it is warped. If the head is bad you should be able to find a replacement in the UK. (turner engineering for one)
THis is what happened to me. After 2 gasket changes and a shaving at a shop, I was able to conclude my head had a small internal crack. I didn't ask the shop to pressure test it out of ignorance, and they didn't offer. swapping the head resolved the problem.
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