Sliding down the slippery suspension slope - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old February 3rd, 2005, 01:02 PM
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Sliding down the slippery suspension slope

Ok,

So a week or two ago I buy this NSO shock mount from Matt (thanks!). It's a good deal, I snap it up. Now, of course I realize I pretty much have to replace my entire rear suspension setup. Since I don't want to be too unbalanced, some front suspension work is called for too!

here's what I'm thinking, looking for opinions, warnings, etc. First thing, I'm not just going to get ride of the mount . #1 that's too easy, #2 I'm stubborn.

So, I currently have OME HD springs all the way around, with Bilstein shocks. The rear HD are a new addition, from a swap with Ken while at Rausch creek. I had the MD, but I found they sagged a bit when loaded up, I figure it's the hard top. The truck gives a firm ride now, fairly stable on the street, even without sways and the swampers, but it's probably a bit too harsh for the NE rocks I have to deal with off road. The truck is pretty level front to rear with this setup, maybe a little up in the back, but not bad. No sag no matter the weight back there.

Anyway, I need at least new rear shocks, as the bottom mount is now a loop. Apparently this mount doesn't use the really long 12 or 14s, but 10" travel shocks, yet due to the mounting angle, they go just as far. KC recommended Rancho 9114, but I'm not a Rancho fan. From the specs I pulled, I think I can get the new Bilstein 5150 to fit, although I might have to put on bigger bump stops to prevent bottoming. I considered the fox, but I think I found they didn't have a shock that was close enough in size to the Rancho 9114. The shock body can't be larger than about 15.5" compressed. The only Fox's that are small enough don't appear to have the travel to take really advantage of the mount.

Now with all that travel, I need to keep the springs in the perches somehow. I'd like to do retainers vs. cones, either EE or the hose clamp route, but I think the rear HD spring is going to prevent a lot of articulation. So I'm thinking of a spring switch, probably to Rover Tym, although sticking with the 2" lift. I don't know if I'm ready to go with the new trailing arms, radius arms, and driveshaft that I think the 3" lift will require. If I can keep the same overall lift I have now, the 34" tires should still fit fine with 2". The new springs are softer in the rear than the HD OME, but heavier than the OME MD - which I think will put me where I should be in the rear.

As for the front, I'm thinking of trying out the Scoripion Racing Evo setup for the front. It's basically cones and a new mount, with a bumpstop. I figure I can probably shove another set of Bilstein 5150 up there too, if I change the shocks mounts. I don't want to leave the front stock if I'm going to have all that travel in the rear, I prefer a more balanced setup.

So, thoughts, criticisms, flames, let it all out boys!

thanks!

Follow-up Post:

yeah, that $50 shock mounts is going to cost me about $1,000 to install
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  #2  
Old February 3rd, 2005, 01:18 PM
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what do you have against Rancho's and "unbalanced set-ups" you friggin' douche bag?

I remember when your truck was clean and still smelled new inside. LOL
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  #3  
Old February 3rd, 2005, 01:23 PM
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Excuse me piss-boy, I'm looking for responses from people who actually 'have' a clue

You are an 'unbalanced setup' .. oh, and your truck smells like ass.
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Old February 3rd, 2005, 01:32 PM
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ahhhhhhhhhh.....you know I'm just jealous of your roof.

you checked yer thread and it was just me wasting space....LOL

dude, get off here and finish our software...

LOLOLOLOL
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Old February 3rd, 2005, 02:47 PM
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Dave, the 5150's look like good shocks. my buddy just put them on his CJ and likes them. As for springs, I am running 2" RYM's in the back and getting 3" of lift and running 3"ers in the front due to the tdi and it sitts level... Even with the lift that I got, I am running a stock drive shaft in the rear with no vibs and a DC unit up front. But I am running RYM rear links that are adjustable and I set up the pinion perfectly. Also in the front I have a 3 link but am running it at stock caster and Rovertracks EXO shock mounts... IT rides great and is tight in the corners too.
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Old February 3rd, 2005, 03:05 PM
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Randy, are RYM springs RoverTym? Do you think with the 2" all around I"ll be level? I've got a SG bumper and Superwinch S9000. I'm hoping to avoid the DC driveshaft and the rear links, but need to keep enough lift to clear the 34" tires.

What's the benefit of the external shock mounts up front, without a three link? Could I (or should I) just run cones up front with external mounts?

thanks,
Dave
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  #7  
Old February 3rd, 2005, 03:15 PM
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RYM=RoverTym... I think the 2" all around would be fine and level. My truck does not have the fuel tank in the rear so its really light in the ass. With the 3" springs, IT was like a 5" lift. Steve at RYM has 2" springs for trucks with winch bumpers.. I think they are the RR3 and in the rear I have the RR2's YOu sould be fine with the stock d-shafts. Jorge has over 3" of lift and has stock shafts.
Oh and I also have EE spring retainers all around and the EE rubber spring isolators that give 1/2 of lift. If you need to level out something, they are great to use too.
Im not sure if you need exo mounts up front without a 3-link. Call up Keith at RT. I think he is making a new type of bolt on front shock system. He can answer your question about that.
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  #8  
Old February 3rd, 2005, 03:38 PM
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And what about the 3 link? SG is having a little $100 off sale right now. My calc's put the front cones and mounts for them at about $300. If I eventually go to 3" of lift, which I'm sure I will someday, I'm looking at new radius arms, arguably I could use them with the 2" lift. That means ~ $550 spent. Or I could get the 3 link for $800 and not worry about radius arms no matter what my lift down the road. So would it be smarter to just spend the extra now and get the 3 link... is it really better than front cones, radius arms, etc? what' it like on the street?
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Old February 3rd, 2005, 04:42 PM
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I'm not going to say how a 3 link is on road even though I have driven one; apparently I have skewed perception of a smooth ride versus a ruff one.

But I have about 3-4" of lift up front with stock arms, and a stock driveshaft, because there is less travel up front I have no problems with the U-joints. But in the rear I was wearing out U-joints every few months until I had the driveshaft place in town make me a new shaft with 30* joints for I think $275. Anyway I am just trying to make things more difficult for you.
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  #10  
Old February 3rd, 2005, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Hippert
I'm not going to say how a 3 link is on road even though I have driven one; apparently I have skewed perception of a smooth ride versus a ruff one.
eh-hem... opps.

I thought it was the front shaft that caused the most driveline vibs too. Hmmm. I saved that PM you sent me on the driveshaft mike, when it comes to it, that's what I'm planning on doing. But I hope to put that off awhile. Maybe I should stick to rear for now, I'm not sure I can afford the 3 link now anyway (I know my wife will say I can't ). Choices, choices... that's half the fun, right?
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Old February 3rd, 2005, 05:09 PM
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LOL

I know you want to do it all at once but I think you should throw on the shocks out back, and test, measure how much travel you have when the springs drop out, then retain them with hose clamps and see just how much travel you loose with those heavy swampers tugging on the spring. If you loose allot then maybe new springs.

For the front, hmmm, test time, measure travel with the shock, up and down, then disconnect one of the shocks and measure travel again, your spring may drop out and if it does try retaining again and see how much you loose.

I expect a full detailed report on your findings! It will be in the 40s out this weekend and I'll be working outside so no excuses! You only need to take the bolt out of the bottom of the shock and you can leave it in place, it helps to have someone else around but I have done all this on my own before.

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Old February 3rd, 2005, 05:35 PM
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Damn you and your logic Hippert! I can't do much this weekend though, got too much planned.

But you're right. I will do some checking and determine what travel is lost in the rear due to retaining the HD springs. I expect it to be significant, but only one way to find out.

And I guess I'll just wait on the front until I've figured out the rear.

thanks
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Old February 3rd, 2005, 05:39 PM
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Busy, so you’re coming up to help me this weekend? Yeah best to work on one end at a time, and you won't be needing allot of travel for the Winter Romp anyway.
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Old February 3rd, 2005, 09:03 PM
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Dave, sounds like you already made up your mind on the 3-link...
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Old February 3rd, 2005, 09:13 PM
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Just FYI:

I have the 9in and change travel rancho shocks in the back with KC setup. I have 37in tires and I am still banging the shocks into the mounts at full stuff. Shorter is better than longer! If you want all the benefit of the 3 link in the front without the cost or roadmanners, try what KC did for me at a local fab shop. You can find pics on here somewhere. Should cost about $100. Good luck!
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Old February 3rd, 2005, 09:54 PM
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Hey Dave, point me in the right direction on that, huh? I went through your 'end is near thread', although there were lots of pics, I have no idea which one you're talking about. Don't leave me guessing, spill it!
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Old February 3rd, 2005, 10:05 PM
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Crap, I totally forget where the pics are. I think a 3link thread, good thing we have not had many of those!!!! Ask the "modinator" He sees and knows all.
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Old February 3rd, 2005, 10:15 PM
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One other thing Dave. Did you switch to larger bumpstops in the rear? I was thinking that would prevent stuffing the shocks so bad? That was my plan to deal with that, so I hope so...

Follow-up Post:

Found it:
http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...ead.php?t=3849
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  #19  
Old February 3rd, 2005, 11:06 PM
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Thats it! I think that the bumpstops would work. I know Tis is going to do that. I have already pulled the rivits out of the body by letting the tire hit the body way too hard. I had to weld the two back together. I think bumpstops are the way to go, I just couldn't stand losing all that slammed tire uptravel!
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