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  #21  
Old August 24th, 2004, 04:34 AM
whitelandy
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Andrew Tokarz
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Thank you all for the info.



Something that I find interesting is this.....



Last year there was a 2000 or 2001 110 for sale on www.landroversforsale.com They called it the "Jimmy Buffet" truck b/c he was the one that it was built for. Price tag was around 48k and I was under the impression that I could get it cheaper upon negotiating. This truck had range rover leather seats, premium stereo, custom bumper and some other stuff. Miles were around 1800. Pictures of the truck looked mint. The guy did mention the car being a “kit car”



To me a kit car is something you build or put together, very similar to the old 60’s Cobra Shelby replicas. How are the Cobras registered? They are legal. What about customer hot rods?



Also last year there was another 2001 or 2002 110 for sale in California. Truck was basically stock, plastic wrapping still on seats with a few hundred miles on it. Guy was asking 50k.



Just a few months ago there was an actor in LA selling his. 1500 miles on his. He posted it on ebay and it never reached his reserve. I think the bidding stopped around 35k. I also got the impression that he wanted 50k for it after talking to him.



When asking all these folks about how they received their cars, no one would tell. And of course they did say it was expensive. The guy from LA was very defensive when asked, kinda strange.



If these trucks are costing 50, 60, 70 or even 80k to get over here, why would someone barely take a breakeven or take a loss of 30k?



Could it be b/c no one can service it, incorrect diesel fuel, it is illegal to drive them. Maybe they received a speeding ticket and the officer said you are driving an illegal truck?



Could it be that these folks are getting rid of the trucks b/c they got them to the states and now they want to make some money? Maybe they got them here and modified them for 35k and now are selling for 50k for a 10-15k profit.



Does any of this make sense?
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  #22  
Old August 24th, 2004, 08:38 AM
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JimC
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Jim Cheney
NAS 110 #145
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I imagine that most sell them for one of two reasons:
1) They think someone will pay 80k for a defender
2) The lunacy of the rules they bent/broke to get the vehicle in the US finally dawns on them after the excitement of getting the truck has worn off. They want the monkey off their back and the money back in their pockets.

I dont tihnk there is a "loophole" for ECR turning 90's into 110's. In the US, once a car belongs to you, you can perform all manner of modifications to it per the rules of your jurisdiction. Tons of Cadillacs and Lincolns are streched every year, pickups are modified with all manner of bed configurations, and their are millions of modified vehciles on the roads which demonstrate an adequate precedent for the relatively minor job of stretching a d90 by 20 inches.
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  #23  
Old August 24th, 2004, 09:26 AM
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Chris Cox
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Chris Cox
94 D90 SW, 300tdi
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That Jimmy Buffett truck was nothing but trouble. The FBI ended up buying it on ebay. The truck was sold at a charity auction for like $25k. The dealer who bouhgt it turned around and sold it for around $40k. That person put it on ebay. The FBI was working a case against whoever built it, so they wanted the truck. They kept bidding on ebay till they got it. Of course, this is just hearsay from the guy who bought it at the auction. If you really want a 110 that bad, just get a used 90 for $18k-$20k, and with $15k of parts, you could have an awesome truck. And it would even be legal.
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  #24  
Old August 24th, 2004, 01:31 PM
whitelandy
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Andrew Tokarz
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JimC, I think your reason #2 is it. Something is forcing people to sell them.

Chris, I am not too interested in chopping my 90. I don't have the tools or the ability. But 15k to get to a 110, you might be on to something.
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  #25  
Old August 24th, 2004, 02:02 PM
kai
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Kai Dussling
2004 Disco II
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While we are on the subject, what is required to convert a 90 to a 110? Let's say pickup as i recently saw one at RDS for $7500. (rear floor/pickup bed, roof)

rear tub 7,500.00
doors 500.00
seats 500.00
headliner 250.00
longer driveshaft 500.00
ext brake lines 200.00
110 frame 2,000.00
misc. crippy crap 2,000.00
Int. trim pieces, carpet 2,000.00
repaint 1,500.00+
Donor D90 20,000.00+ (this is a high mileage motor)
Total 36,950.00

The above equation doesn't factor in time, motor work, or the normal mods we all need and want if you don't already have them. Also, the donor 90 above includes a motor that needs work or to be replaced. What about bushings, and other wear parts? This is just the obvious. I'm sure you could easily tack on another 10-20%.
I think a minimum grand total for a driveable decent vehicle is about $45-50K .

I'd say one year minimum build time for the average Joe Schmo working weekends, nights, etc. Forget it if you are married, have kids, school, or a real job.

It would probably be easier to just buy a 93 110 and just restore it. You also wouldn't have to worry about any legal issues.

Damn, that $7500.00 tub/body seemed like a great deal.
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  #26  
Old August 30th, 2004, 05:01 PM
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David Marchand
'97 D90 SW Arles
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From LRX.com... under "defender"

Advertisement to SELL; Product: 2001 DEFENDER; Price: $45000.00; (Currency: US Dollars);
Defender 110 Crew Cab TD5 Diesel
2001 Defender 110 Crew Cab Fully legal title in the State of Texas. I have title in hand ready to go. Assembled from almost all brand new parts. Engine and drive train have 32k miles on them. The rest of the truck has about 2400 miles. Complete painted inside and out. No Rust. Linex in bed and floors. Email for more info. and additional pictures. Serious questions only and only about the truck. Do not ask me ''how''? I am not a fast tract to Defender 101. That being said I will answer as many question about the truck as are needed.

Jeromy Landers.
Beaumont, Texas, United States of America - 26 August 2004
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  #27  
Old August 31st, 2004, 02:28 PM
Screehopper
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Joey C.
97 Disco 5-sp
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This just got me thinking, how do the shops that make custom stretch limos pass DOT and all the other safety measures? I'm talking about all the crazy H2 and Escalade super stretch limos that I see in the Los Angeles area. I saw how they build them on the Discovery Channel. They chop the vehicle in half. Weld in extensions, do the body work, and tah-dah, a stretch limo. But it's safe enough for the road? And they can get insured? Or is money doing the talking here? I get the feeling that somehow they're bypassing some of the safety regulations.
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  #28  
Old August 31st, 2004, 02:54 PM
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Jason Herring
94 D90 ST #1253
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I think it's a case of the law dealing with what they can - the import of non-NAS DOT approved vehicles at the border. They can't possibly control/enforce all the mods done to vehicles by the owner once it's in the country - think about it, where do you draw the line? Will inspectors have to get under the vehicle and look for frame welds? Measure the frame length of each vehicle at the DMV and cross-reference it with the factory specs for every model year just to register your car? It would be such a massive task as to be nearly unenforceable.

However, if the vehicle from the factory doesn't meet DOT standards, well, they can stop that much more easily. Some overseas market cars might actually be just fine for the US, but the manufacturer doesn't have the presence in the US to bother the expensive certification process for the DOT.

The end result might be that vehicles built overseas are safer than DOT-modified vehicles in the US. It doesn't seem entirely fair. Can you imagine if stretch limos had to undergo crash tests? Better change your wedding plans!

I think one route to go would be to get a ratty D90 and perhaps a packaged, partially dissassembled D110 from Europe or Brasil (the exchage rate is so great vs Brasil compared to really shite vs the UK we should really look there as opposed to Europe for material) and using the D90 as the base 'stretch' the frame & then dump on the D110 upperworks. This is probably much cheaper than buying an itemized list like mentioned above - you cost is basically the cost of the run-down D90, the cost of the D110 plus shipping, and the labor to mesh them together with the legally-stretched frame.
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  #29  
Old August 31st, 2004, 07:14 PM
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J. Landers
1983 110 LHD Galvanized Everything
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You can rebuild a vehicle into a 110. In the state of Texas you have to get a VTR-68A form filled out and notarized. This form requires you to receive an inspection by the local Vehicle Task Force in order to check for stolen parts you may have used to assemble a vehicle. Any items that you change you have to have proper paper work to back up that you are the true and rightful owner. That can include all customs papers, bill of sale, or just receipts where you bought it. It all depends on the Officer in charge of the inspection. You also have to get a VTR-61 form filled out and notarized, which basically is an affidavit stating what you changed from the original vehicle. At that time the state may or may not decide to reassign you a new vin #. They may decide to include your newly modified part or parts under you existing vin #. In the State of Texas if you change your frame you are suppose to do all this anyway. Doesn't matter what kind of vehicle it is either. Pretty much if you change any major item from the factory installed equipment you should do the above in the State of Texas. After you have done the above items the state will issue you a new legal title. If they don't give you a new vin #, on the section of the title where it has remarks it will reference that there has been changes to the original vehicle. It is not a fun process and I am sure it can go bad, but that is the risk you have to take to insure that you have a good legal title. Remember people do this every day with hot rods and all kind of other vehicle. Most processes are just routine for the parties involved. We as defender owns just fill afraid because of all the bad stories floating around. I am sure if you did this as a business you might raise and eyebrow somewhere, but just "Regular Joe" in the garage builds a truck I don't think so. It was a risk I was willing to take and it worked out fine for me. I mean hey guys we are not criminals here. We are just people in love with Land Rovers, maybe a little deranged but not criminals.
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  #30  
Old September 6th, 2004, 05:57 AM
BarryO
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Barry O'Mahony
97 D-90 SW LE
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Bill Gates and Paul Allen took over 10 yrs. to get their Porsche 959's out of U.S. Customs, and they have unlimited resources. I think they ended up buying a few "extra" of these $250K cars so that they could be crash-tested per U.S. specs.

That's a long time. It would be a bit easier with a 110, since a U.S.-legal version exists (1993), but it still seems a very difficult task.

I understand the attraction though. My wife took her Disco to the LR Portland dealer for service a couple of months ago (ABS was acting up and I was out of town), and excitedly reported that they had a '93 110 for sale. I really miss those times when the NASDAQ was 10,000. I would have snapped it right up
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  #31  
Old September 22nd, 2004, 10:24 AM
PTSchram
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P. T. Schram
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmarchand
Why would you want a TD5 to begin with here? You wouldn't be able to service the CPU's.

Crap, who wants CPU's in their diesel truck?!
The Rovacom-Lite supports the Td5.
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  #32  
Old September 23rd, 2004, 11:00 AM
KeithD
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Keith Duckett
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How's this for a loophole? I think you can bring one in as a temporary import for a year? And then you have to re-export it? Well, just keep on bringing it in and out of the country....many people change their car every year anyway....so get a new one every year. Shipping costs arent that bad!
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  #33  
Old September 23rd, 2004, 12:30 PM
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flippedrover
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Tyler
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After that year is up and its been shipped back you have to wait either 6-12 months before it can be reimported if at all.
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  #34  
Old September 23rd, 2004, 01:31 PM
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JimC
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Jim Cheney
NAS 110 #145
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Just have two or more and rotate them.
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  #35  
Old September 24th, 2004, 11:06 AM
KeithD
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Keith Duckett
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Or just find someone else to join you int he scheme/scam - keep it a year, sel it to them, say in Mexico, they then reimport it, in their name and you reimport theirs which they have sold to you.....

Might be simpler just to buy a Disco.
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  #36  
Old September 24th, 2004, 11:35 AM
Eric Siepmann
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Eric W. Siepmann
1997 Defender 90 SW
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"Another option is ECR build you one, then it will be in the $60-$80K. ECR uses D90s as the base of the conversion and aparently found a loophole in the system that allowed them to "legally" do it. But that doesn't have anything to do with you being in the UK already."

It's legal because they start with legal NAS D-90's. They are just modifying the 90'd into 110's. They don't retitle them as 110 to the best of my knowledge. Similar to swapping an old engine out with a new one. Just that they swap the frame, body, drivetrain..... components as well.

The infamous CKD LR defender brought in has left the country. The permit was for a specified time period and then it had to be exported back out of the country. So why go thru the expense of bringing it in just to do it all over again. Plus the dollar is already weak against the pound. A new CKD would be very expensive to start with.

To get an idea of what a federalized truck might run, try Skytoprovers.com. They just are just beginning the process of becoming a registered importer and when I talked with them, they told me it was a bitch and expensive. There's a reason that the CT truck costs close to 100k on the site.

Why go thru all the trouble when there are 110's already legally here. Sounds like you have the finances, so why bother with the hassles and pick up a NAS110 and convert it to your liking? I have seen 110 crew cabs offered at RDS for a reasonable cost. Get's rid of all those pesky legal problems like being personlly liable for property damages and the like when they find out your truck is either illegally titled or a grey market vehicle. No way I'd even consider a grey market or re-titled truck or bankruptcy and lawsuits.

EwS
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