Should LR Address these Engine Fires - Page 2 - Defender Source
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  #21  
Old August 15th, 2005, 07:01 PM
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Oh crap.. ADMIN ERROR

Robert, I am so sorry, I just was reading through and I guess hit EDIT instead of REPLY when I was replying to your last post.

My apologies to smoking your last post there.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lriwater: As you know, most wives don't like Series trucks due to the ride and lack of creature comforts. Girlfriends seem to like those, but some sort of magic happens during the wedding ceremony.
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  #22  
Old August 15th, 2005, 07:10 PM
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Robert Ragland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisvonc
Oh crap.. ADMIN ERROR

Robert, I am so sorry, I just was reading through and I guess hit EDIT instead of REPLY when I was replying to your last post.

My apologies to smoking your last post there.

My truck possibly going up in flames is one thing, but carelessly editing my posts...that's when I call the attorney.
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  #23  
Old August 15th, 2005, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadsiderob
2) 1987/1988 Classics had no engine oil coolers. In 2004, LR made a design change on the D2s and eliminated the engine oil coolers, they said testing revealed that they werent necessary. Has anyone given any thought to just eliminating the oil cooler? It would be a simple matter of removing the sandwich adapter and the lines and pugging the ports on the radiator. My D90 has 167,000 miles and is an early 1994--still running the original hoses---I am considering doing this, especially since I only commute 12 miles a day and only occasionally tow a light trailer and have no A/C. I would think that trucks that are used in temperate or colder climates might actually benefit by not overcooling the oil and being able to burn off more crank case contaminants.
What are the thoughts on this? I have less than 5K miles on a set of new (LR) lines on my 110, but still constantly think about these bad boys busting loose. Taking the cooler and the lines would definately appeal to me, but not if I cause more damage to an engine I would like to use for another 50K.
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  #24  
Old August 15th, 2005, 10:23 PM
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David Marchand
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It's interesting the oil cooler does exist on the V8. On the later tdi's and 2.8 powerstroke, the cooler was eliminated and/or not used. Maybe the buick 215 list on yahoo might be able to answer some questions.
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  #25  
Old August 15th, 2005, 10:38 PM
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Robert Dassler
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As far as removing the oil cooler goes, I am considering fitting an oil temp gauge and getting a baseline reading and then eliminating the cooler and see if there is any difference. I predict that in my situation I will not see any difference.
Rob
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  #26  
Old August 15th, 2005, 10:42 PM
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Abel Villesca
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Rob,

Count me in if you need another truck for data colllection.

Abel
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  #27  
Old August 16th, 2005, 12:43 PM
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Transmission cooler lines, how much potential for fire? I replaced the oil lines with braided, but the tranny lines? Anything else?
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  #28  
Old August 16th, 2005, 01:30 PM
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I've heard of tranny line fires and power steering line fires. All high pressure lines should be routinely replaced.

Doug W.
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  #29  
Old August 16th, 2005, 01:33 PM
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Good sources for the aforementioned? OEM or upgraded? I've read the threads on having new hoses done through a custom line shop, but I don't see being able to have the down time right now, so anything off the shelf would be appreciated.

Thanks Doug (and all), as always.

Torrence
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  #30  
Old August 16th, 2005, 01:38 PM
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I am running stock replacement tranny and ps lines. Don't know any other quick fix. Search forum for data on custom building these lines.

Doug W.
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  #31  
Old August 17th, 2005, 11:56 AM
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This thread has been "Stuck" to increase visability on this issue and has been moved to the TECH section. -CVC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lriwater: As you know, most wives don't like Series trucks due to the ride and lack of creature comforts. Girlfriends seem to like those, but some sort of magic happens during the wedding ceremony.
[/size]
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  #32  
Old August 17th, 2005, 12:07 PM
Eric Siepmann
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Just replaced the PS lines so that makes both sets oil and PS replaced.

Should LRNA issue a service bulletin? Might be one out there for all we know. Maybe Ron could Ask Allyssa if there is one.

I only caught it after inspecting the engine bay while installing a front diff.

CvC, sucks man ,sucks.

RDS has an Entire new NAS body, FRAME and axles on their site. Call the cajun man. It's green, not Yellow though.

Been awhile since the choose my color tread as well!

EwS
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  #33  
Old August 17th, 2005, 12:11 PM
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Eric I saw that on his site. He and I have been emailing a little. That sweet looking green is just the primer coat. I was really digging it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lriwater: As you know, most wives don't like Series trucks due to the ride and lack of creature comforts. Girlfriends seem to like those, but some sort of magic happens during the wedding ceremony.
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  #34  
Old August 17th, 2005, 01:37 PM
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Jason Herring
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I was just looking at my lines this past weekend - not leaking, but the outer surface is cracked near one of the press-joints. After reading this thread, the time to replace just became sooner rather than later!

I noticed at least one person installed braided hose - this sounds like a better plan than the factory lines to me. Maybe I'll do my oil and PS lines in braided.

I like the concept of an oil cooler - lots of high-performance cars run them. Keep your oil cool = engine lives longer. These little V8's are known to have overheating problems anyway and I don't think I'll push my luck.
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  #35  
Old August 17th, 2005, 04:59 PM
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Eric W. Siepmann
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisvonc
Eric I saw that on his site. He and I have been emailing a little. That sweet looking green is just the primer coat. I was really digging it.

CvC,

I was actually thinking about it. Sold my house and have some extra defender cash so to speak. But I really don't have the time or need all the parts so I guess I'll just not bug George with stupid time wasting convo.

I say get it! See if he'll throw another pint of primer in with the deal.

EwS
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  #36  
Old August 18th, 2005, 12:00 AM
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I was emailing with Mike at ECR through today originally about their opinion on rebuilding my truck and we got into the issue being covered in this thread. He offered some good input as to what they have seen but basically, just as they had said on the page I linked earlier, they don't have enough feedback to say for sure what is going on.

Here was his comments from our emailing, posted with his permission (thanks again Mike!). We pick up where I had told him at this time, the cause has not yet been determined but that most suggested cause from those looking at the damage suspected it had been the oil cooling lines:
Quote:
We have seen dry rot and cracks in these, especially now that some people are running around on 12 year old lines, but then again we have seen fires in 110s that had newer oil cooler lines too. As a rule we say no more than 5 years on a set of oil cooler lines in an effort to try and stop the fires. We have not found the smoking gun and until we see one go up in front of us we likely never will.

For your thread you can ask the owners of burnt 90s and 110s these questions:
1. Were the oil cooler lines replaced recently?
2. Was there a trail of engine oil on the ground behind the vehicle, and a puddle where the Rover stopped (was it leaking oil as it rolled to a stop)
3. Does the 90 have AC?
4. Had an oil change been completed recently?

These are things we are looking into to try and find a common thread.
I will modify the first post in this thread and add these questions he brought up. If you or anyone you know has had a Defender engine fire, lets see if we cant get some answers.

Follow-up Post:

1. Were the oil cooler lines replaced recently?
I am pretty sure mine were original.
2. Was there a trail of engine oil on the ground behind the vehicle, and a puddle where the Rover stopped (was it leaking oil as it rolled to a stop)
Yes, you can see traces of the trail my truck left all the way up the road until where it stopped, the puddle was not huge but enough that the fire dept put down "oil dry".
3. Does the 90 have AC?
Yes
4. Had an oil change been completed recently?
Would have to check records to see what was included but the truck was current with all of LR scheduled services.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lriwater: As you know, most wives don't like Series trucks due to the ride and lack of creature comforts. Girlfriends seem to like those, but some sort of magic happens during the wedding ceremony.
[/size]
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  #37  
Old August 18th, 2005, 01:25 AM
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I'm convinced that high rpm pressure blew my 110s original lines. I had just gone through a full set of shifts, 1st to 3rd gear changes, up to 5000 rpm each time. Engine was empty of oil when checked post fire. Truck has AC. No record on the oil change status. I'm sure the smoking gun was either brittle hose and/or bad assembly of hose fittings. High rpm oil pressure finally caused the rupture/blowout. I wish I had grabbed my old lines but sad to say I didn't, so never saw the actual lines -- the adjuster did however, and said that they definitely ruptured and caused the fire.

Doug W.
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  #38  
Old August 18th, 2005, 03:51 AM
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From mine (not when I owned it):

Original lines
AC: yes, but not running/on
Not sure on trail of oil
Not sure on oil change

One thing I neglected to mention earlier is that when the P/O replaced the lines he sleeved them with a temp resistant cover that should keep the temps down and also will prevent spray if they rupture again. The truck (and all my rovers) came with a fairly large extinguisher.

While at Main Line I saw an LWB go up right in front of me (I would have had the fire out but by the time I got there the hood would not pop). It had come in with an EAS failure so it bounced the whole way in. It was clearly leaking oil prior to the fire.
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  #39  
Old August 18th, 2005, 08:57 AM
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Jesse McCoy
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From my fire
1. Were the oil cooler lines replaced recently?
No, but the PO did do the stealership maintenance, and maintained it quite well. But as said before, I don't think it's on the maintenance schedule.

2. Was there a trail of engine oil on the ground behind the vehicle, and a puddle where the Rover stopped (was it leaking oil as it rolled to a stop)
Puddles, I mean puddles, of oil.

3. Does the 90 have AC?
Yes

4. Had an oil change been completed recently?
Come to think of it yes. Couple of days before because I was headed on a road trip (caught on fire 300 miles from my house...sux)

On a side note, I'd been trying to isolate a leak before it happened, guess I didn't get it quick enough.

I was lucky I caught mine in the "Lots of white smoke" phase and could get it off the road. It didn't flame up so there was no other damage. I do carry an extinguisher now though (like those recommended in an earlier thread).
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  #40  
Old August 18th, 2005, 11:36 AM
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Robert Ragland
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Chris,

ECR's comments are helpful. However, they illustrate, once again, the lack of concreteness that really only the manufacturer can provide. If a shop of their reputation finds difficulty with this phenomenon, then LR needs to provide some guidance.

I'm especially curious about the comment concerning AC. Did they offer any more specifics?

If the hoses aren't on the LR maintenance schedule, then current owners need a warning before someone is hurt. I know some of the posters on this board have worked in LR dealers. Does the dealer provided service schedule (updated long after our owner's manuals) help with this matter?
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