Seeking guidance on gears engaging (lack of) issue. - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old November 6th, 2016, 11:33 PM
bnoonan
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Seeking guidance on gears engaging (lack of) issue.

I've scoured the net for previous posts. Many searches on this but no previously posted issue seems to match:

Clutch feels solid and normal. I can shift all gears normally (feels normal) when vehicle is running or off, does not matter. Vehicle rolls in neutral.
When running, the gears do not engage.
It does not matter if I shift into H or L, no position of the transferbox shifter works.

Master cylinder fluid level is full.

No apparent leak from slave.

Any thoughts (or directions to a post with same issue I missed) would be much appreciated.
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  #2  
Old November 6th, 2016, 11:42 PM
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You say it shifts fine running and then say it won't engage gears running. Which is it?

Sounds like the clutch is not disengaging.
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Old November 7th, 2016, 12:09 AM
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I think he means that there are no obstructions/resistance "moving" through the gears.
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  #4  
Old November 7th, 2016, 12:09 AM
bnoonan
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Apologies John,

I am able, with the clutch depressed, to move the gear shift about as normal. However, when the clutch is released and the gas pedal depressed....nothing but revving of the engine and a lack of movement.
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  #5  
Old November 7th, 2016, 02:32 AM
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Plenty of potential causes. You didn't hear any nasty noises before this happened did you?
With transfer box in H or L (not N), what happens if you lock the center diff and try to drive off?
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Old November 7th, 2016, 04:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnoonan View Post
I've scoured the net for previous posts. Many searches on this but no previously posted issue seems to match:

Clutch feels solid and normal. I can shift all gears normally (feels normal) when vehicle is running or off, does not matter. Vehicle rolls in neutral.
When running, the gears do not engage.
It does not matter if I shift into H or L, no position of the transferbox shifter works.

Master cylinder fluid level is full.

No apparent leak from slave.

Any thoughts (or directions to a post with same issue I missed) would be much appreciated.
Most likely is the transfercase is stuck in neutral - take a look underneath ... i cleaned my shifter linkage up with brake cleaner then lubed it with lithium grease to make it move easier.
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  #7  
Old November 7th, 2016, 07:40 AM
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Doug Crowther
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Try diff lock. If it now will move and drive the problem is in one of the axles. You don't say what model. Is the truck a 95 or earlier ? What mileage is on the truck ? Your out put shaft flange splines ever been checked.
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  #8  
Old November 7th, 2016, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Douglas View Post
Try diff lock. If it now will move and drive the problem is in one of the axles.
Yes, most likely a broken axle part if it is really going into gear. If it moves in diff lock, then that is the problem. Take it back out of diff lock and with it running in gear and clutch out have someone look underneath to see which propshaft is spinning.
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  #9  
Old November 7th, 2016, 09:28 AM
bnoonan
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It is an '88 90 with 170k on the 12J engine.
It does not engage in diff lock. No position of the transferbox shifter enables the vehicle to move under its own power.
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  #10  
Old November 7th, 2016, 09:37 AM
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Remove the transfer case PTO cover plate and inspect the trans output shaft splines. They may be wiped right out.
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Old November 7th, 2016, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transientmechanic View Post
Remove the transfer case PTO cover plate and inspect the trans output shaft splines. They may be wiped right out.
What I was thinking.
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Old November 7th, 2016, 10:31 AM
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If difflock has no effect then as Adam says above remove the round cover plate on the back of the transfer case.
There is a aluminum bearing race piece under that stamped steel plate that may or may not have two philips head screws holding it on. Remove that part. What often happens is those splines are completely stripped off on pre 1996 trucks do to a lack of lubrication issue. What this means is there is no power being transmitted into the transfer case. Another way to check it is to put trans in gear, parking brake off- but wheels chocked, jack up one tire, and have someone turn that tire while you watch with the transfer case gear still in place. If the gear is able to turn then you know the shaft it rides on is striped. Alternatively you can reach in and pull the gear in front of you straight out.
Once the gear is out reach in and feel the splined shaft that gear is meant to ride on.

If that's the case and the shaft splines are striped you will require a new transmission. Did you have a decent clunk sound when you let the clutch out in the past ?
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  #13  
Old November 7th, 2016, 10:33 AM
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Land Rover LT230 Input Gear Spline Wear |
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  #14  
Old November 7th, 2016, 12:51 PM
bnoonan
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Oh man. OK. Phew.
I'll get under there in the next day or few and take a peek inside the transfer box.

If the splines are indeed stripped, I guess this is a good time to look into that TDI upgrade too!
Thanks so much guys. I'll update this thread with what I find.
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  #15  
Old November 13th, 2016, 11:27 PM
bnoonan
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Hello all.
Update summary - still not certain what is wrong.
1) Spoke to reputable mech. (Safari HP) - Suggested that absence of history of grinding made it seem unlikely that the transmission was out. Suggested I check for a broken 'dog' (FRC7333). All here appears to be in order. Not broken off of the selector shaft (FRC7334).

2) Checked for stripped splines: Removed round cover on back of transfer case, released hand brake and twisted drum. No movement at all within transfer case (nothing like the wiggle I have seen in the videos online illustrating the stripped spline issue). BUT-I did not yet remove the other piece that was under the stamped metal cover. Must I do this to truly assess whether this is stripped by turning the e-brake drum? If I take this ring off (not sure if there are 2 phillips screws there or not yet), can I pull the gear out?

3) I can clearly determine though that a distinct sound of stipping/grinding when I try to drive is coming NOT from the area described above (green arrow in image), but instead the part of the transfer gearbox where it connects to the forward shaft (red arrow in image). Does this information provide any insight into the problem?

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_...FdCcmNMOThGTWs
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  #16  
Old November 15th, 2016, 11:08 PM
bnoonan
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Also:
Though my truck definitely has a lift, no prop shaft spacer has been installed. Could this be responsible for the lack of engagement here at the front end of the trasnfer gearbox?

And finally, my selector bush is broken (looked a lot like this on the inside https://www.landroverexpedition.com/...in-the-coffin/). This certainly did not help matters.

So, might these 2 issues solve it (once I get replacement parts in)? Should I take the outer ring off of back of transfer case still?
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  #17  
Old November 20th, 2016, 10:25 PM
bnoonan
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Thoughts?
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  #18  
Old November 20th, 2016, 11:04 PM
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Not seeing a response to my inquiry asking what happens when you lick the center diff with transfer case in h or l and car in gear.
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  #19  
Old November 21st, 2016, 11:59 AM
bnoonan
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Hi Chris. Apologies. Yes, when I shift into dif-lock H or L (forward left or rear left) and then put the car in gear, pressing the gas does nothing. I do however hear a bit of a whine/spinning where the transfer gearbox joins the front shaft.
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Old November 21st, 2016, 04:06 PM
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Have you ever driven it? What happened before it stopped moving?
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