Scratch built with state assigned VIN? - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old June 30th, 2016, 12:38 AM
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Scratch built with state assigned VIN?

Is this idea brilliant or bonkers?

Thought about doing something like this a few years back if I was feeling ambitious but decided to let that idea go because I was not sure about its legality, apparently someone has went ahead and did it.

Find used Land Rover Defender Kit Car State Assigned VIN Defender 110 4dr 200Tdi in Omaha, Nebraska, United States, for US $39,500.00

For curiosity sake (ignoring whether its cheaper to just buy and restore) Is this really a good idea?

I did a quick search and didnít find this specific situation sorry if I'm missing it and re-asking.
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  #2  
Old June 30th, 2016, 12:52 AM
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I'm pretty sure I saw that truck on ebay awhile back. People seem to be afraid to buy it.
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Old June 30th, 2016, 01:32 AM
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I saw a different one on eBay a few times in the past month.
Land Rover: Defender NAS TYPE

My vote would be for "bonkers" if you ever plan sell the truck.
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Old June 30th, 2016, 01:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmgcny View Post
I saw a different one on eBay a few times in the past month.
Land Rover: Defender NAS TYPE

My vote would be for "bonkers" if you ever plan sell the truck.
Good point, I donít think Iím interested in either of those specific trucks, seems a but high asking considering they want to stick to the "Kit car" story. Kit cars donít demand as much ad the real thing.

My plan was to get a T5d 110 from UK ...strip and ship everything except chassis ship it here and special order a galvanized td5 chassis from RN ...get an Oregon or Washington assigned VIN. Keeping all my receipts. brand new chassis are not built by land rover and donít have a conflicting VIN so it should pretty much kit car like to me.
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  #5  
Old June 30th, 2016, 10:37 AM
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I have seen a couple here in the Portland area over the last 10 years or so. 2 for sure had state issued vins. While called kit cars they were both built with oem parts/drive train with the exception one had an isuzu turbo diesel. I knew the owners of both of them at the time and knew the back story. I personally don't see a problem with a state issued vin, as long as you trust the seller and know the history.
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Old June 30th, 2016, 10:49 AM
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If the "kit" is not provided by a manufacturer of said kit, then it is a hand built car. The high profile of Land Rovers may lead to a lot of questions when you go to get a VIN for said hand built car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenoa View Post
Is this idea brilliant or bonkers?

Thought about doing something like this a few years back if I was feeling ambitious but decided to let that idea go because I was not sure about its legality, apparently someone has went ahead and did it.

Find used Land Rover Defender Kit Car State Assigned VIN Defender 110 4dr 200Tdi in Omaha, Nebraska, United States, for US $39,500.00

For curiosity sake (ignoring whether its cheaper to just buy and restore) Is this really a good idea?

I did a quick search and didnít find this specific situation sorry if I'm missing it and re-asking.
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  #7  
Old June 30th, 2016, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmgcny View Post

My vote would be for "bonkers" if you ever plan sell the truck.
Second this. Insurance, resale, registration with the DMV...these all seem like potential obstacles, liabilities, or issues that I'd be hard-pressed to want to deal with.
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  #8  
Old June 30th, 2016, 10:54 AM
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i am not trying to start a debate but whats the difference with:
building a defender with a kit car title
and
building a knock off cobra with a kit car title

why is 1 ok and 1 "stay away"???


this is assuming you actually "build" the defender with photos and not just remove a vin and paint a truck like a lego builder. =)
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  #9  
Old June 30th, 2016, 11:08 AM
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I have a complete 110 here. Galvanized chassis, galvanized bulkhead, axles, fuel injected gems v8 auto drive train, 5 door body, interior panels etc. I have pieced the parts together over the past 12 months. My plan is to build myself a killer 110 daily driver once we finish the 5 frame off restorations going on now. Problem is or has been, that when one leaves, I let another one come in, so this may never get off the back burner. Point or question is, if you are known for building defenders from the ground up, how is a state issued vin a deal killer ? Seems nuts to spend 4-5k bringing in a knackered mot failure just to part it out and use its brake booster bracket and paperwork for its identity. I get that its a difference in perceived value, just saying I don't see it that way. The finished product is the same truck.

Agreed value insurance is akin to a vegas bookie, you can insure anything if the cost/risk is acceptable to both parties, so this is more a question of re-sale value. Like Keith, I don't get the perspective of some here.
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  #10  
Old June 30th, 2016, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d90boy View Post
i am not trying to start a debate but whats the difference with:
building a defender with a kit car title
and
building a knock off cobra with a kit car title

why is 1 ok and 1 "stay away"???


this is assuming you actually "build" the defender with photos and not just remove a vin and paint a truck like a lego builder. =)
Well, until (very) recently the Defender was still a "production" vehicle (versus the Cobra which was from 1962-63 or so)....so I'd still be using that for the basis/assumptions, it'd be like building a "kit car" Ford Explorer that is identical (or close to) a current production model.

That said, now that it's technically post-production could possibly change things...but I'd check with Willh or similar to see the legality. But all that aside, why not just import a $2-3K sh*tbox from the UK if you want to do a rebuild and use that for the starting point? Then you'd be a "Land Rover Defender", with no gray area, and no potential resale or liability issues. I mean if you're going to spend $30, 40, 50K on parts (or more!) why not spend a few more G's on getting a truck here for the basis of the rebuild.
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  #11  
Old June 30th, 2016, 11:24 AM
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i guess i dont agree. to me a turd of an 80's truck for a vin is not worth the money and i would just rather have a state assigned vin, that way in the "event something" happens you have the blessing of that state you built it in.

where as you bring in an 80's turd and then do:
galvi chassis, LS motor or whatever, an auto trans and new body panels - there aint nothing left of that 80;'s truck and ......

plus if you happen to buy a truck that was imported by someone on a watch list and you dont know it.... fast forward years that trucks VIN will always be "suspect" and you will never know it.
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Old June 30th, 2016, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d90boy View Post
i guess i dont agree. to me a turd of an 80's truck for a vin is not worth the money and i would just rather have a state assigned vin, that way in the "event something" happens you have the blessing of that state you built it in.
And what happens if that "state vin" gets sold to another state to be registered? And that state has an issue with it's appearance resembling a recent production vehicle, but registered as a kit?

Registration aside, make the call to "Jake at State Farm", ask what he's wearing (khakis), and then run the scenario by him for input/etc. If insurance is ok with it, then I'd tend to agree it's a bit of a moot point. But I still (personally anyhow) would rather be driving a Rover registered as a Rover.
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  #13  
Old June 30th, 2016, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d90boy View Post

plus if you happen to buy a truck that was imported by someone on a watch list and you dont know it.... fast forward years that trucks VIN will always be "suspect" and you will never know it.
Nah. The amount of scrutiny brought to bear on these entries is very high. It is heightened if the shipper/seller on the foreign side is on a agency list. Part of the process is the pre-departure security filing. The fee associated with that filing funds a quick background check on bother the foreign seller who invariably shows as the shipper and the stateside buyer who shows as consignee. If anything triggers, the shipment is pre selected, while still on foreign soil, for a more intensive exam on arrival. Customs has a whole division for these named Advanced Targeting. I have even had US Customs trigger/do an intensive exam in a foreign port, before the vehicle was allowed to load to come to the US, because of the clients last name, which was muslim. With the new system that went online last month ea agency has to sign off on ea entry before its allowed to clear so I'd say your fear is unfounded.
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  #14  
Old June 30th, 2016, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanwind View Post
And what happens if that "state vin" gets sold to another state to be registered? And that state has an issue with it's appearance resembling a recent production vehicle, but registered as a kit?

Registration aside, make the call to "Jake at State Farm", ask what he's wearing (khakis), and then run the scenario by him for input/etc. If insurance is ok with it, then I'd tend to agree it's a bit of a moot point. But I still (personally anyhow) would rather be driving a Rover registered as a Rover.
once it has a state assigned vin, its good country wide as far as i am aware [CA] i would not bet a dollar on though.

------ Follow up post added June 30th, 2016 11:42 AM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Douglas View Post
Nah. The amount of scrutiny brought to bare on these entries is very high. It is heightened if the shipper/seller on the foreign side is on a agency list. Part of the process is the pre-departure security filing. The fee associated with that filing funds a quick background check on bother the foreign seller who invariably shows as the shipper and the stateside buyer who shows as consignee. If anything triggers, the shipment is pre selected, while still on foreign soil, for a more intensive exam on arrival. Customs has a whole division for these named Advanced Targeting. I have even had US Customs do an intensive exam in a foreign port, before the vehicle was allowed to load to come to the US. With the new system that went online last month ea agency has to sign off on ea entry before its allowed to clear so I'd say your fear is unfounded.
i tend to stay away from all 80's junk, but i know for sure if i saw a certain name on any paperwork i would NEVER buy it and sell it to client. NEVER NEVER NEVER. its not worth my reputation or backlash it would cause. not to make $5,000 or 10,000. not a chance.
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Old June 30th, 2016, 11:50 AM
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Picking up what you are putting down. FWIW charges were never filed, the case was dropped, and everything seized returned, for "that name".
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  #16  
Old June 30th, 2016, 11:52 AM
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still is not with the aggravation for a couple dollars.
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  #17  
Old June 30th, 2016, 11:59 AM
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Hypothetical for the vehicle in question....


Door #1 - Say it started life as a 1999 D110 ROW and legitimate Canadian import (>15 years old). Then disassembled, brought into the states, reassembled here on a replacement chassis, and inspected and assigned a state issued VIN and kit car title. That vehicle would be worth zero to me given it is essentially a reassemble of a 17 year old truck.


Door #2 - A truck built from a conglomerate of parts collected over the years with a state issued VIN and kit car title? I'd hand the guy a beer, be impressed of the accomplishment, and start negotiating on a price discounted from a comparable with a valid LR VIN.
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  #18  
Old June 30th, 2016, 12:04 PM
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Interesting topic



.
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Old June 30th, 2016, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by One Ten View Post
I'm pretty sure I saw that truck on ebay awhile back. People seem to be afraid to buy it.
it was also $65,000 at bentley gold coast - i am sure that had a LOT to do with it not selling. =)
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  #20  
Old June 30th, 2016, 01:33 PM
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Any issues with insurance claims not honoring full salvage value of a kit car? That's the thing I fear most.
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