School me on T-case removal! - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old October 15th, 2006, 02:03 PM
Buckon37s's Avatar
Buckon37s
Status: Offline
Buck
Re-Fendered 90
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Temecula, CA, USA
Posts: 3,376
School me on T-case removal!

It looks like I have to pull my t-case to get to the diff lock that is likely toast. Any help anyone can give me on dropping the t-case is most appreciated! I have never done this before. Hope it is not that bad. Thanks in advance!

Dave
__________________
2009 King of the Hammers

BUCK Wild Racing
Driver: Me
Co-driver: Pat Quirk
Team 911

Rover Tracks
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PSC
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DJ Safety
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
West Coast Rovers
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reel Driveline
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Made it further than half of the other guys, but the Hammers won.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old October 15th, 2006, 02:49 PM
Hans's Avatar
Hans
Status: Offline
Hans Haase
The D-90.com Lab Rat
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,381
I haven't done it on my defender, yet, but I have dropped a few out over the years and they aren't much different from pulling a transmission. But the bottom side of most transfer cases are at a pretty steep angle that makes it tricky to balance them on a transmission jack. The shop manual has plans to make an adaptor plate to go between the transfer case and tranny jack that looks like it will make it a LOT easier. IIRC a couple people on the forum already have these made up and are willing to lend them out. Otherwise I can always copy and mail you the plans. There are also a few things you have to fiddly with in the linkage for the selector lever to get clearance. Again, I can copy the manual page if you need it.

Either way, if you can get ahold of a proper transmission jack it will make your life a lot easier. Most floor jacks don't get anywhere near enough lift and the pad is too small as well. Normal floor jacks are too easy to drop the case and smash it, or yourself, in the process. Some folks also have suggested pulling out the floor panels and using an engine hoist to lift it up and out through the door. But I can't remember for sure if that was the transfer case or transmission they were doing. On other trucks I have used an engine hoist through the access plate in the floor to lower them down to the ground. Fairly easy to remove, a pain to align when re-installing, but do-able and probably safer since you aren't potentially under the things as they come down.

Another thought is that if your clutch is pretty high on the miles, you might want to do the extra work and drop the transmission as well. Since you're already halfway there, and if you have the time and budget, a new clutch isn't TOO much extra work.

-Hans
__________________
My oil line fix

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
My 100k stopped odometer fix

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Brace for impact, I'm in a "modifying mood". Massive thread count inbound.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old October 15th, 2006, 03:14 PM
D90user's Avatar
D90user
Status: Offline
steve
109/110 ambulance-55 series I
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Nevada
Posts: 1,447
Also Dave as you truck is huge... if you dont have access to a hoist you can remove the floor panels, then take two of those semi truck ratching tiedowns and lower the transfercase and transmission using the frame rails. Make a kinda of hammock and cradel it. Lower with a buddy or two... then when your done ratched it back up and in.
I think the most difficult part is getting it back in. I had problems getting it to line up correctly, It's not easy to move around.

As Hans said... a good time for the clutch if needed.

hope that helps

-steve
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old October 15th, 2006, 03:23 PM
Hans's Avatar
Hans
Status: Offline
Hans Haase
The D-90.com Lab Rat
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,381
I hadn't though about the extra height he has on his truck. Even a rolling tranny jack may not get enough lift in his case. I think they generally top out at about 20" or so maximum height. And it's probably not tall enough to use one of the hoist types that you use if you're on a lift.

The cradle idea you have there doesn't sound too bad at all Steve. Heck, with two beefy friends you can probably do it with just muscle power if they're careful and you bolt some chains to it or something similar so they don't slip off. The LT-230 is aluminum cased right? Can't be more than 100 pounds or so.

-Hans
__________________
My oil line fix

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
My 100k stopped odometer fix

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Brace for impact, I'm in a "modifying mood". Massive thread count inbound.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old October 15th, 2006, 03:52 PM
D90user's Avatar
D90user
Status: Offline
steve
109/110 ambulance-55 series I
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Nevada
Posts: 1,447
The whole tranny/tcase assembly dosnt weigh that much togather... much less than I thought.

Also With Davids truck you could probably set up a quick block and tackle system off the top roll bar and get a 50% reduction.

I like that idea... Dave you should totally do that and just lower it down... I had the top on when I did this and had to do the frame rail gig...

The removal of the floors makes defender stuff so much easier, you coudl never do this with other trucks.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old October 15th, 2006, 04:04 PM
Noah's Avatar
Noah
Status: Offline
Noah
95 D90 TDI
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Freeport, ME
Posts: 102
Well this sounds perfect for me to chime in.

I just dropped the tranny twice this summer. First time I used an electric winch attached to a forklift that I carefully drove in an open door and positioned basically directly over that strip of sheet metal seperating the tranny cover and the access panel below your tuffy box area. Turns out that was the center of gravity for me which made for much trouble as you can't lower/raise fully with that strip of metal in the way. Also my electric winch was far too touchy to gently line up the entire unit onto the studs on the rear of the engine.

I decided the next time I did that I would get a proper tranny jack. First thing I bought was the tranny jack adapter at Napa. Sadly this only properly fits the 2 ton floor jacks and not the 3.5 ton jacks. So the whole thing was a wobbly mess and at one point tipped over and dropped the tranny (after it was safely away from the clutch).

I've finally got the correct system going now: I went out and bought the cheapest real tranny jack napa has (~$280) and drilled holes in the flat plate to match the 3 threaded holes (metric 8) on the bottom rear of the tranny. I got some all-thread m8 lengths and was able to bolt my tranny onto the tranny jack using these as studs. Turns out this is also the center of gravity for the transmission WITH the t-case bolted to it. Now when I put it back in I can gently align it using the jack's tilt controls to get it back on the studs without damaging the clutch.

Eyeballing it I think the tranny jack gives me almost an extra 6" in height I don't need (with around 4" of lift on my truck).

**edit: just measured: the plate of the jack is 26" fully extended, plus a couple inches for my studs.

I usually don't have an extra hand when I'm working and after all the swearing I've done over this I would recommend getting a tranny jack and either making a bracket or bolting the unit to the jack as it will make re-installation far easier!

a pic of the setup
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old October 15th, 2006, 08:00 PM
Buckon37s's Avatar
Buckon37s
Status: Offline
Buck
Re-Fendered 90
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Temecula, CA, USA
Posts: 3,376
Thanks a lot guys. I figure I will only drop the t-case because the clutch is only about 5k miles old. Granted they are almost all trail miles. I think that I can weld a cradle out of bar and make a jack out of an existing jack. I can deflate the tires and run the airshocks on nothing and get the belly of the truck down to the high teens somewhere. Anything I should know about the actual removal process? What to do or I'm skrewed type of thing?
__________________
2009 King of the Hammers

BUCK Wild Racing
Driver: Me
Co-driver: Pat Quirk
Team 911

Rover Tracks
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PSC
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DJ Safety
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
West Coast Rovers
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reel Driveline
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Made it further than half of the other guys, but the Hammers won.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old October 15th, 2006, 08:34 PM
Hans's Avatar
Hans
Status: Offline
Hans Haase
The D-90.com Lab Rat
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,381
The only tricky part that I am aware of is fiddling with the linkages to get enough clearance, the book lists everything you're supposed to do, but it's a bit confusing how they describe it. And make sure to disconnect everything between the case and the truck such as the vent line, driveshafts, speedo cable, parking brake cable, IIRC there might be a wire for the dash indicator somewhere also. You may also have to drop out part of the exhaust as well. Oh, and don't forget to pull the boot and knob off the shift lever inside the truck, and drain the fluids before removing the cas. I tend to forget that once in a while. But basically once you get the external stuff removed it's just a case of removing the bolts and sliding it backwards off of the adapter. Since you're not removing the transmission, I don't believe you'll have to worry about removing the crossmember at all.

Installation is basically the same, except it's a bit tricky doing that first lift to mount the transfer case. You have to align the splines on the input gear with the transmission output shaft. Then align the bolt holes, and bolt it all up. Sounds easy, but the funky weight and balance of transfer cases makes it a bit tougher than you would think. But from there on, if you cleaned up everything when they were out it makes it all a lot easier to install again.

Overall though, it's not difficult but it's usually annoying and time consuming work. A lot of time on your back with poor lighting and playing with unusually dirty parts of the truck that are hard to get at sometimes and hurt when you drop them on your forearm. Typical drivetrain work. I'd give it 3-4 hours to remove it all if you don't run into any problems, and maybe an extra hour or so to put it all back in.
__________________
My oil line fix

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
My 100k stopped odometer fix

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Brace for impact, I'm in a "modifying mood". Massive thread count inbound.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old October 15th, 2006, 08:48 PM
Roadsiderob's Avatar
Roadsiderob
Status: Offline
Robert Dassler
1994 D90
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
Posts: 994
A few pieces of advise....
Remove the PTO plate & bearing retainer and withdraw the input gear....that way you don't have to fight the splines going in & out. Reinstall & reseal the covers after the t-box is back in. Make sure to use a new gasket if you find one when you take it apart...The bearing preload will be changed if you don't.
Keep the bolts that mount the transmission to the transfer case in order. The 2 short ones go in from the front. If you put the long bolt in the top forward mounting hole it will screw between the teeth of the intermediate gear and the end of the bolt will bend over and get all mashed up when you move the truck for the first time...and it's a lot of fun to fix when that happens
Take the parking brake & backing plate off completely
Shift the T-box into low...it makes the linkage easier to get apart
__________________
Rob Dassler
SWR Automotive
505-872-7818 (shop)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old October 15th, 2006, 11:14 PM
pendy's Avatar
pendy
Status: Offline
jim pendleton
89'd90
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: andover, ks usa
Posts: 2,341
As high as your truck sits I could sit underneath it and remove the transfer case. Just leave the transmission mount connected and pull it back. The way Rob describes is the easy way if without a trans jack.

Are you done yet
Pandy
__________________
legend in my own mind

Advice is only as good as the person applying it--
Don't make me give you bad advice!

Lemons or lemonaide, whatever your taste provides.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old October 16th, 2006, 12:34 AM
redrover

Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Dave, you said over on Pirates that your CD is stuck engaged. Does the light stay on when you shift to unengaged? If so that says the CD shift fork rod is not moving. That could mean that linkage related to the CD selector shaft linkage is loose or worn. The housing sits dead on top of the front output housing and is held down by 3 bolts. You can get a decent view of it if you pull the little tunnel cover. The nut on top of this housing cover may be loose.

PS are you sure you werent trying to do front wheel digs using the E-brake? and the CD engaged?

Pendy have you ever pulled just the front housing?

Also seems like if you removed the oil pan , you could get at all the bolts that hold the CD selector shaft cover on the side of the front output housing. atleast you could see if the linkage is functioning all the way to the dog clutch hub. JP
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old October 16th, 2006, 12:58 AM
Buckon37s's Avatar
Buckon37s
Status: Offline
Buck
Re-Fendered 90
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Temecula, CA, USA
Posts: 3,376
Quote:
Originally Posted by redrover
Dave, you said over on Pirates that your CD is stuck engaged. Does the light stay on when you shift to unengaged? If so that says the CD shift fork rod is not moving. That could mean that linkage related to the CD selector shaft linkage is loose or worn. The housing sits dead on top of the front output housing and is held down by 3 bolts. You can get a decent view of it if you pull the little tunnel cover. The nut on top of this housing cover may be loose.

PS are you sure you werent trying to do front wheel digs using the E-brake? and the CD engaged?

Pendy have you ever pulled just the front housing?

Also seems like if you removed the oil pan , you could get at all the bolts that hold the CD selector shaft cover on the side of the front output housing. atleast you could see if the linkage is functioning all the way to the dog clutch hub. JP

Hey,

Thanks for your help. I don't have the indicator light hooked up so no light on. I was not doing a front dig, just wheeling. I lost all power to the rear end. Put the case through all the shifts and got the rear power to come back on line. Then after the day was over noticed that I had no ability to to get out of Locked. The truth is that I am totally fine with leaving it locked but my worry is that I will lose the rear power again. Or the front or both, depending on what is damaged. It really could be the linkage. I will do what you recommend. Thanks very much for all the help.

Follow-up Post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pendy
As high as your truck sits I could sit underneath it and remove the transfer case. Just leave the transmission mount connected and pull it back. The way Rob describes is the easy way if without a trans jack.

Are you done yet
Pandy
You are Pendy. You can't expect mere little people like us to be able to do the things of which you speak!

PS: I hope it really is as easy as you say.
__________________
2009 King of the Hammers

BUCK Wild Racing
Driver: Me
Co-driver: Pat Quirk
Team 911

Rover Tracks
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PSC
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DJ Safety
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
West Coast Rovers
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reel Driveline
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Made it further than half of the other guys, but the Hammers won.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old October 16th, 2006, 09:15 PM
WhiteD90's Avatar
WhiteD90
Status: Offline
Johnathan Tisdale
93 110, 90 RockRR buggy
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 816
Dave-

I'm surprised Pendy didn't give you a hard time about using a jack. I had a buddy help me when I swapped the R380 to a ZF, we laid on the ground and hoisted the trans/transfer combo with nothing but elbow grease.

The only real advice I have is that I remember loosening the motor mounts and being able to tilt the engine/trans/x-fer down toward the rear and it made for easier installation, watch the fan blade though. It's been a while so you should probably listen to these other guys for good advice.

Tis
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old October 16th, 2006, 09:39 PM
Hans's Avatar
Hans
Status: Offline
Hans Haase
The D-90.com Lab Rat
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,381
Buck, seriously, the worst part about the whole job is that transfer cases are usually covered in grease and grime more than just about anything else on a truck, which makes it annoying to do some of the harder to access bolts. But then again, I'm used to doing 30 year old rigs that have never had their undersides cleaned. And I usually end up having to do it in the late fall or early spring, when the driveway gets a bit cold to be laying on for a couple hours. That, and I'm also used to the older iron cases which are quite a bit heavier.

It's not a particularly hard or complex job, in fact I'd rate it easier than most engine work. Definitely easier than doing head gaskets or a timing chain. I'd probably rate it in difficulty about the same as changing a CV joint and brake rotor. The only difficult part is when you actually drop the case down and lift it back up, and thats just because of the weight.

A couple more minor suggestions. A cheap firm pillow or folded up old blanket under your head will relieve the neck strain while you are laying under there. And I highly suggest a good pair of safety glasses to keep little bits of gunk out of your eyes. A pair of mechanics gloves are also pretty nice in these situations too.

And the last one, this is the MOST important probably. Make sure to chock the wheels! Once you drop the driveshaft, you loose the parking brake and the transmission to keep the truck from rolling. Do one on each side, just to make sure it doesn't pivot.
__________________
My oil line fix

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
My 100k stopped odometer fix

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Brace for impact, I'm in a "modifying mood". Massive thread count inbound.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old October 16th, 2006, 09:47 PM
pendy's Avatar
pendy
Status: Offline
jim pendleton
89'd90
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: andover, ks usa
Posts: 2,341
If you don't chock the wheels it makes it easier to get the case out from underneath the truck sometimes

I have taken the front output off with the transfer case connected but on a lift and would not do it again. To much hassle and not really a time saver in the end.

JP
__________________
legend in my own mind

Advice is only as good as the person applying it--
Don't make me give you bad advice!

Lemons or lemonaide, whatever your taste provides.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old October 17th, 2006, 01:02 AM
Buckon37s's Avatar
Buckon37s
Status: Offline
Buck
Re-Fendered 90
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Temecula, CA, USA
Posts: 3,376
Thanks everybody. I should be able to start this in two weeks and will see how it goes. I am going to try the old elbow grease method.
__________________
2009 King of the Hammers

BUCK Wild Racing
Driver: Me
Co-driver: Pat Quirk
Team 911

Rover Tracks
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PSC
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DJ Safety
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
West Coast Rovers
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reel Driveline
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Made it further than half of the other guys, but the Hammers won.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old October 17th, 2006, 09:03 AM
evilfij's Avatar
evilfij
Status: Offline
evilfij
I have never seen a rover in person
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: on the internet
Posts: 14,688
"Keep the bolts that mount the transmission to the transfer case in order"

Yes. VERY IMPORTANT.

It only weighs 80-90lbs. I can manhandle one in and out fine but I am large. No tranny jack needed.

I would convert to the AVM part time kit. I know that Doug when he was running 60s on his red 94 broke the center diff. It is clearly the weak link of the LT230. If you must have full time 4x4 get the ashcroft one piece cross shaft for the diff.
__________________
*not legal advice*
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old October 17th, 2006, 10:28 AM
Buckon37s's Avatar
Buckon37s
Status: Offline
Buck
Re-Fendered 90
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Temecula, CA, USA
Posts: 3,376
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilfij
"Keep the bolts that mount the transmission to the transfer case in order"

Yes. VERY IMPORTANT.

It only weighs 80-90lbs. I can manhandle one in and out fine but I am large. No tranny jack needed.

I would convert to the AVM part time kit. I know that Doug when he was running 60s on his red 94 broke the center diff. It is clearly the weak link of the LT230. If you must have full time 4x4 get the ashcroft one piece cross shaft for the diff.
Can you tell me more about the AVM kit. This is the second time I have head it mentioned. Is it a big improvement in strength? Is there anyway to split power front and rear? I have heard no and yes to that one. Thanks
__________________
2009 King of the Hammers

BUCK Wild Racing
Driver: Me
Co-driver: Pat Quirk
Team 911

Rover Tracks
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PSC
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DJ Safety
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
West Coast Rovers
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reel Driveline
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Made it further than half of the other guys, but the Hammers won.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old October 17th, 2006, 10:44 AM
evilfij's Avatar
evilfij
Status: Offline
evilfij
I have never seen a rover in person
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: on the internet
Posts: 14,688
http://www.avm.com.br/products4.htm

Bearmach sold them last time I checked so DAP in the US should be able to get them. My understanding is you cannot split power front to rear. You either get RWD or locked center diff 4WD.

Not 100% sure on strength due to lack of experience, but the fact that it is basically one piece as opposed to 4 little gears should make it quite strong.
__________________
*not legal advice*
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old October 17th, 2006, 02:05 PM
Neil McCauley's Avatar
Neil McCauley
Status: Offline
Neil McCauley
94 ST, 97 ST, 93 110
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,366
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilfij
http://www.avm.com.br/products4.htm

Bearmach sold them last time I checked so DAP in the US should be able to get them. My understanding is you cannot split power front to rear. You either get RWD or locked center diff 4WD.

Not 100% sure on strength due to lack of experience, but the fact that it is basically one piece as opposed to 4 little gears should make it quite strong.
Didn't mean to hi-jack but could you use the avm kit on alloys or only on flat steel??



Neil
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Transfer Case Filler Plug removal d90xjay Defender Technical Discussions 19 December 29th, 2009 12:56 PM
School me on Heater core removal Buckon37s Defender Technical Discussions 23 September 15th, 2009 10:46 AM
transfer case questions HELP! mattwhite Defender Technical Discussions 2 March 8th, 2009 02:45 PM
Transfer case output nut size? Trigger Defender Technical Discussions 5 April 12th, 2005 03:32 PM
D90 wgn - Automatic Shifter T- Handle Removal Kimos Defender Technical Discussions 22 January 18th, 2005 07:05 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:06 PM.


Copyright