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  #1  
Old December 16th, 2014, 10:44 AM
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Rust Opinions

What's the general consensus on the rust seen below. Looking for a beginner defender so all the ones I've seen/will see have some rust.

How far gone does this one look? Sorry for the iPhone pics!

















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  #2  
Old December 16th, 2014, 10:53 AM
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Well, its all relative.
It's definitely been patched and the rust issues will need to be addressed at some point and to an extent where patching is no longer viable (new frame). However, assuming there are no real soft spots (need to run around with a tack hammer), this would represent a very typical used Defender.


there is a lot of waxoyl being used. Some would suggest that copious amounts of waxoyl is only used to hide issues rather than protect, so the fact that it is laid on heavy would make me worry.


Are you looking to drive it for a few years, then restore? do you expect the frame to hold up for 2-3 years, 4-5 years or longer? HOw do you plan to use the truck?


Obviously, this is pretty far from perfect, but I think its all in a matter of what are your expectations and what's your budget and long term vision for the truck.
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  #3  
Old December 16th, 2014, 10:59 AM
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rear cross member has been replaced and that one weld looks like crap, cant tell if its holding anything or not. The one rear spring perch looks dangerous. I'd plan on replacing that immediately if not sooner.

two pedals is this an auto conversion ?
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  #4  
Old December 16th, 2014, 11:10 AM
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yeah, that spring perch looks a bit shady!
I think it goes without saying that you or somebody that knows what to look for needs to physically inspect this truck. Don't buy anything based on photos. This is the type of truck you need to send some time poking around, trust me on that.


I just didn't want to be totally negative because I know that not everyone can afford a $30,000+ Defender. If your budget is mid teens and you are looking to peel the truck apart in a few years when you have the money an knowledge to restore, maybe you can live with some of this rust, but further digging around is definitely warranted.
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Old December 16th, 2014, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackie Treehorn View Post
Well, its all relative.
It's definitely been patched and the rust issues will need to be addressed at some point and to an extent where patching is no longer viable (new frame). However, assuming there are no real soft spots (need to run around with a tack hammer), this would represent a very typical used Defender.


there is a lot of waxoyl being used. Some would suggest that copious amounts of waxoyl is only used to hide issues rather than protect, so the fact that it is laid on heavy would make me worry.


Are you looking to drive it for a few years, then restore? do you expect the frame to hold up for 2-3 years, 4-5 years or longer? HOw do you plan to use the truck?


Obviously, this is pretty far from perfect, but I think its all in a matter of what are your expectations and what's your budget and long term vision for the truck.
I took these pictures myself. The frame itself seems to be solid. The outriggers, floor, and misc such as that spring perch were the worst of it. Small rust on the bulkhead. Body is in good condition.

You're describing exactly my plan. I would like it to hold up for 3-5 years as-is. Then I will likely dump money into it for a new galv chassis and restore. I will daily drive it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Douglas View Post
rear cross member has been replaced and that one weld looks like crap, cant tell if its holding anything or not. The one rear spring perch looks dangerous. I'd plan on replacing that immediately if not sooner.

two pedals is this an auto conversion ?
The spring perch concerned me. What does it entail to replace it? No the clutch pedal is there just awkward picture angle.

Truck is an 87 D90 with 200tdi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackie Treehorn View Post
yeah, that spring perch looks a bit shady!
I think it goes without saying that you or somebody that knows what to look for needs to physically inspect this truck. Don't buy anything based on photos. This is the type of truck you need to send some time poking around, trust me on that.

I just didn't want to be totally negative because I know that not everyone can afford a $30,000+ Defender. If your budget is mid teens and you are looking to peel the truck apart in a few years when you have the money an knowledge to restore, maybe you can live with some of this rust, but further digging around is definitely warranted.
Thanks for being honest. I did see this defender myself but I'm relatively new to these so I always ask for suggestions from the elders. Haha. I can certainly live with rust, I just don't want the truck falling apart on me!

------ Follow up post added December 16th, 2014 11:26 AM ------

Pics for reference





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  #6  
Old December 16th, 2014, 11:28 AM
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Most things can be repaired without replacing the chassis. It is simple grinding and welding. All of the perches and outriggers are available as replacement parts at low cost. Cut the old off and weld a new one on.

Example: http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...ad.php?t=32881
Search STC8610 for the rear spring perch.
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  #7  
Old December 16th, 2014, 11:31 AM
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Spring perch needs to be cut off flush and a new one welded on. Takes me about an hour to do one. Chris/Rovertech up your way can fix it for you if its not something you are comfortable with.
Spring perch's are relatively cheap @ around $50. Not an expensive job but given that perch is compromised @ both top and bottom and is likely paper thin, needs to be done asap. One good NY pothole.....

If you buy it I'd get the adjacent weld that looks suspect ground down and re-welded if necessary @ the same time.
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  #8  
Old December 16th, 2014, 11:38 AM
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Awesome, thanks for the replies guys!

Overall, would you guys say this looks like a relatively solid defender that'll last a few years with minor repairs to the chassis? Good buy below 20k?

P.S. I'm very frequent on a few different forums for other cars. The defender community is unbelievably supportive, never seen anything like it!
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  #9  
Old December 16th, 2014, 11:47 AM
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Let me know if you bring it home. I live in Westchester as well.
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  #10  
Old December 16th, 2014, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sloanfiske View Post
Let me know if you bring it home. I live in Westchester as well.
Great, working on it!
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  #11  
Old December 16th, 2014, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SidewaysWaffle View Post
Awesome, thanks for the replies guys!

Overall, would you guys say this looks like a relatively solid defender that'll last a few years with minor repairs to the chassis? Good buy below 20k?

P.S. I'm very frequent on a few different forums for other cars. The defender community is unbelievably supportive, never seen anything like it!
What condition is the drivetrain in? How well done is the conversion (maybe some engine bay pics)? To me, these are the more important bits in the equation.
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Old December 16th, 2014, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
What condition is the drivetrain in? How well done is the conversion (maybe some engine bay pics)? To me, these are the more important bits in the equation.
Unfortunately I don't have any good pictures other than the one below. All I really know if the 90 drove and ran very good.



More for reference.







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  #13  
Old December 16th, 2014, 12:21 PM
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The one picture is positive as it shows a stock Defender 200TDI installation which means they have not done any creative custom conversion.

Take it for a spin. It should pull well and hard up to 75 mph, track straight and feel solid and brake well.
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Old December 16th, 2014, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
The one picture is positive as it shows a stock Defender 200TDI installation which means they have not done any creative custom conversion.

Take it for a spin. It should pull well and hard up to 75 mph, track straight and feel solid and brake well.
Thanks, good news!

I did drive it but not on the highway, maybe got up to 50. It drove great, had plenty of power, and braked hard until lockup haha!
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  #15  
Old December 16th, 2014, 02:13 PM
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John is right, that's a stock (proper) Defender 200Tdi (as opposed to a Disco 200Tdi which has a different intake turbo setup) both are great motors. I had one (Defender 200Tdi) in my old truck and it did pull very strong. You can really hear that turbo spool up when its so close to the bonnet cover.


I also noticed that it has a nice NAS-style rear step bumper. It's the ROW version, but close enough.


You really showed us the worst it seems, the body looks great from those pictures. If I had judged the condition based on the exterior (15-footer), I'd have been shocked to see that amount of rust, but it only takes a few years in the salt for non-galvy frames to start to show rust and if that frame already had rust then it accelerates very quickly.


Doug is also correct in that outriggers and spring perches are simple replacements if the person knows what they are doing. It's just when you start seeing rust coming through the bulkhead where the hinges bolt and under the window. The Bulkhead replacement is major surgery.


The heavy application of 5-bar plating tells me that this was definitely restored in the UK and given the fact that it has a 200Tdi I'd say the current owner imported it at least three years ago (b/c it wouldn't have made it through Customs within the last 18 or so months).


Since you're asking for advice, I'll say that mechanically speaking the first and most important question is "when was the timing belt replaced?" get proof on that......and even then plan on replacing it just for double insurance. I wouldn't put it past one of the UK gypsy shops to claim that they replaced it even though they hadn't.
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Old December 16th, 2014, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SidewaysWaffle View Post
...had plenty of power, and braked hard until lockup haha!
Sounds good to me. Nobody ever says that.
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Old December 16th, 2014, 02:55 PM
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I am currently doing the same repairs. There tends to be very thin material forming the exterior of the chassis where the spring perch meets the chassis when the perch is that bad, (due to trapped moisture and mud) usually rots through the chassis to the thin angle supports inside the chassis. Mine was quite a bit better than the ones you pictured and this was what needed doing to the actual chassis, along with new steel of the same size installed at the bottom of the chassis under the bump stop. Mine had a replacement crossmember with extensions installed at some point in the past. Since they did it overlapping the chassis and with large welds (as you pictured) I properly prepared it and butt welded it for a much cleaner look in my opinion.

The new spring perch is quick and easy to install, it is the worms that continue to fall out of the rest of the can that takes time. It also helps if you are the type that enjoys welding and a bit of fabrication. I know I do.
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  #18  
Old December 16th, 2014, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackie Treehorn View Post
John is right, that's a stock (proper) Defender 200Tdi (as opposed to a Disco 200Tdi which has a different intake turbo setup) both are great motors. I had one (Defender 200Tdi) in my old truck and it did pull very strong. You can really hear that turbo spool up when its so close to the bonnet cover.

I also noticed that it has a nice NAS-style rear step bumper. It's the ROW version, but close enough.

You really showed us the worst it seems, the body looks great from those pictures. If I had judged the condition based on the exterior (15-footer), I'd have been shocked to see that amount of rust, but it only takes a few years in the salt for non-galvy frames to start to show rust and if that frame already had rust then it accelerates very quickly.

Doug is also correct in that outriggers and spring perches are simple replacements if the person knows what they are doing. It's just when you start seeing rust coming through the bulkhead where the hinges bolt and under the window. The Bulkhead replacement is major surgery.


The heavy application of 5-bar plating tells me that this was definitely restored in the UK and given the fact that it has a 200Tdi I'd say the current owner imported it at least three years ago (b/c it wouldn't have made it through Customs within the last 18 or so months).

Since you're asking for advice, I'll say that mechanically speaking the first and most important question is "when was the timing belt replaced?" get proof on that......and even then plan on replacing it just for double insurance. I wouldn't put it past one of the UK gypsy shops to claim that they replaced it even though they hadn't.
The bold threw up a red flag. This defender was imported about 2 months ago. Still waiting on original PA title. Says he brought it to his house in Spain for a year, then imported it here from Spain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
Sounds good to me. Nobody ever says that.
Hahah, I was expecting it to be much slower to be honest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by broadstone View Post
I am currently doing the same repairs. There tends to be very thin material forming the exterior of the chassis where the spring perch meets the chassis when the perch is that bad, (due to trapped moisture and mud) usually rots through the chassis to the thin angle supports inside the chassis. Mine was quite a bit better than the ones you pictured and this was what needed doing to the actual chassis, along with new steel of the same size installed at the bottom of the chassis under the bump stop. Mine had a replacement crossmember with extensions installed at some point in the past. Since they did it overlapping the chassis and with large welds (as you pictured) I properly prepared it and butt welded it for a much cleaner look in my opinion.

The new spring perch is quick and easy to install, it is the worms that continue to fall out of the rest of the can that takes time. It also helps if you are the type that enjoys welding and a bit of fabrication. I know I do.
Thanks for posting that up!

I'm not very good at welding so will likely have a shop take care of this. I have a friends family who own a Land Rover shop so will take it to him. What would you expect something like this to cost?
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Old December 16th, 2014, 03:17 PM
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flat roof, 200TDi, freestyle wheels.....AND it was just imported 2 months ago?
I'd investigate this a bit more thoroughly.
I've learned that ANYTHING is possible in this world, but unless he drove it across the border from Canada I don't see how this made it past CBP.


I don't mean for this to turn into an import issue thread, but read this:
http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...t=customs+took


Just because you have a title doesn't mean you're in the clear. Make sure it was imported properly.


"D" reg tag suggests it was DLVA registered as a '85, but that really means nothing when it's been modified from its original configuration.
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  #20  
Old December 16th, 2014, 03:19 PM
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The bold threw up a red flag. This defender was imported about 2 months ago.
That would be enough for me personally to walk away.
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