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  #1  
Old January 27th, 2005, 12:34 AM
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Runs like dog poop

Just finished the head gasket swap, and having a few issues.

Runs hotter than before, and the gauge really climbs under load or at a stoplight. Didn't have that before.

Also, sluggish. Very sluggish. Can't go over 55 sluggish, and if I give it more gas it just runs hotter.

Third, it sounds... different. I can't quite place it, but the exhaust almost sounds hollow.

I have a few ideas, figured I would check with you guys to see what else came up.
-Hans
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  #2  
Old January 27th, 2005, 08:42 PM
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Robert Dassler
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Where is the timing set? Should be 6BTDC. Did you change the timing gears/chain?
Rob
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Old January 27th, 2005, 09:17 PM
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Well, I HAD the timing at 6 btdc, and thats where it was doggin around. I also put in a new double roller timing chain set, and everything checked out ok as far as the dots lining up. (I didn't retard or advance the cam timing, though the chain did offer that option) I did some research, and apparently there are issues with the timing marks on the dampener being WAY off in some cases. Hmmmm. But then again RPI does some nasty paranoia pieces on their website.

I advanced it about 4 degrees more and it made a huge difference. I remember when I bought the truck it had been at about 10 degrees advanced then too. The vacuum advance checks out ok, so that isn't the issue. I think I'll try the vacuum gauge method to time it until the weather warms up and I can verify the marks on the dampner. I had to re-use an old coil wire from my jeep too, so that might also be an issue. (new set of wires was missing it, and I accidently threw out the old one).

The overheating is already much better, and power is up too. I can actually get it over 55 now :-)

-Hans
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  #4  
Old January 27th, 2005, 11:05 PM
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I'd check the centrifugal advance, too...have seen those stuck. Maybe pull #1 plug and find the piston TDC and check it against the timing marks. I've run up to 12 degrees of advance at high altitude, but the truck should run fine at 6BTDC. What brand of timing set did you use? I have Edelbrock (I think) timing sets in all 4 of our Land Rovers set straight up and have never run into a problem.
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Old January 27th, 2005, 11:24 PM
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I used a J&P timing chain set that RPI sold real cheap on E-bay ($45?)

I definitely want to confirm the timing marks, but it's just toooo cold right now. But good idea to check the centifigual advance, I'll do that next week when it gets back over the freezing mark out here. Right now things are liveable, and I want to focus on getting the oil lines done ASAP.

You wouldn't be able to confirm the threading coming out of the oil pump, would you? I believe it's 1/2" BSP but I can't confirm it and I'd hate to have to wait a week every time I need to try a different adapter.

-Hans
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  #6  
Old January 30th, 2005, 09:17 PM
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It sounds like your distributor is in too far advanced--the timing marks would not indicate this. I would recheck that if you had it removed (and you probably did). Sounds like it is off 1 plug advanced.
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Old January 30th, 2005, 09:45 PM
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Right now, power is actually back up to where it should be. I may rotate the wires a spot over to try a touch more advance (vacuum pot bonks into water pump right now), but it's definitely back to normal as far as power is concerned. Before I re-timed it, the exhaust manifolds were getting really hot, which tells me it was late timing and the plugs were firing with the exhaust valves open. Eastwood makes a nifty little tool to check TDC, probably order that tomorrow. Strangely, the spark plugs all keep coming a bit loose on me, probably because I re-used the old plugs and the crush-washers are shot on them. New plugs on tuesday.

It still runs hot under load, like going 70mph on the highway, but once I back off the throttle it cools back down right away. Never overheats at idle or when I go 60mph or less and I've been careful not to let it get too hot. The hose clamp on the thermostat housing had worked itself a bit loose, so we'll see if that helps at all. I know it also needs a new fan clutch, I'm looking into non-LR units to see if there are any that kick in at lower temps or can run bigger fans. Perma-Cool has a few part numbers that I THINK will work, and if the threading is what I think it is.... flex-a-lite has an adapter to swap over to non-viscous fans. Worst case, I have no problem with going to electric fans, but cash is still a bit short.

New oil cooler hoses should arrive on Wednesday. If I ordered the correct parts, it ran me $130 including tools for replacement hoses and fittings. IF that's correct, a thermostatically controlled and much bigger oil cooler will be going in soon as well.

-Hans
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  #8  
Old January 30th, 2005, 09:57 PM
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Hans, with the current temps and the speed that you are overheating at, I would not think the fan clutch has anything to do with overheating. Maybe the loose hose is not keeping pressure in the cooling system? But I can turn my electric fans off as long as I am over 40 mph.
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Old January 30th, 2005, 10:14 PM
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I am thinking the same, the pressure loss is probably allowing the coolant to boil a bit at the thermostat and right by the sender. But I am curious, I wonder if the windmilling fan is slowing down the airflow through the radiator? I also want to take the damned expanded steel screen off my brush guard. It does nothing but block airflow and catch snow. I still may be a bit behind on the timing too. (gee, I just had the thought.... maybe the thermostat is in backwards?)

The one thing that i am wondering....

Before I did the headgaskets, the upper heater hose seemed like it almost never had any fluid in it. It was always VERY easy to squeeze and never as hot as I expected. It definitely has coolant in it now, and the difference is noticeable. It makes me wonder if I was possibly overheating all along, but there wasn't enough coolant flow to get to the temp sensor? Just a random thought on that one, but unlikely.

-Hans
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Old January 30th, 2005, 10:23 PM
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Hmmmmm, Most of the overheating Rovers I have been in the upper hose was full and under a bit of pressure. But if the system cannot hold pressure at all due to a leak then thats another story. But I always thought that a bad headgasket would pressurize the cooling system even more? And can you even put the T-stat in backwards and not have it leak all over?
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Old January 30th, 2005, 10:48 PM
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Well, let me clarify a bit.

Prior to head gasket. When running, the upper hose would be pressurized, but it felt like air pressure and not liquid. It was hot, but you could keep your hand on it and it cooled down fast, kinda like it was full of hot air and not hot coolant. Once I shut the truck off, and things cooled down, the hose felt empty.

Now, the upper hose gets the right kind of hot, a deep heat that tells me it's full of coolant. The fact it was leaking coolant confirms that. Also, when it's shut down, it still has the resistance of being full to it... though not as much as when the system is hot and pressurized.

I should know a bit better on the way home from work in an hour if the re-clamping worked. I have off Tuesday and Wednesday, so I'll take a closer look at it all one of those days. I just want to get this issue worked out.... I have a very very lonely MegaSquirt sitting on my workbench :-)

-Hans
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Old January 30th, 2005, 10:58 PM
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ahhh yes that makes sence! LOL on the MS, I just got mine yesterday, I got a little soldering to do and then work starts up again on my 90!
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Old January 30th, 2005, 11:02 PM
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Yes, the Megasquirt.

Best advice, test-fit the board in the case before assembly. It may need some sanding on the ends, and it's easiest BEFORE you install all the parts.

Also, the instructions are wrong about which "slot" it goes in. Put the board 1 slot closer to the top than the instructions say, otherwise the MAP sensor won't fit and the endplates will be misaligned.

-Hans
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Old January 31st, 2005, 04:42 PM
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Ok, I think I figured it out. Maybe my thermostat is too high a temp rating. On the way in to work today, the normal overheat at the normal place. I back off, it cools down. On a whim, I sped back up again once it had cooled. The Temp didn't go back up again. I also noticed that at the point the heat start rising, is the same time that the heater temp suddenly jumps a LOT. Considering that the heater hose is on the same side of the thermostat as the radiator hose, it's all starting to make sense.

The Napa thermostat I have is a 190 degree thermostat, what is the original LR part rated at?
Maybe I'll try a cooler thermostat.

-Hans
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Old January 31st, 2005, 05:26 PM
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Depends, I think most with "overheating" problems run a 150 T-stat, but then you get worse gas milage and water des not get burnt off as fast. I would say this is only a patch to the problem but I know you are changing the radiator and other stuff anyway.
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Old January 31st, 2005, 06:04 PM
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I was hoping to get a while out of the radiator actually. But there is a radiator shop around the corner from me (walking distance), I'm off tomorrow from work, so maybe I'll go talk with them about it. Either way, I do know I need a new fan clutch eventually, but I'll ask them how much to rod it out and have a drain plug installed.


-Hans
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  #17  
Old January 31st, 2005, 08:59 PM
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Hans,
factory t-stat is 88C
Rob
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  #18  
Old February 1st, 2005, 08:17 AM
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88C = 190F. See if they will flow check the radiator for you first. You may need to just flush the system, not to fun to do in the cold, but at least we are in a heat wave!
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Old February 5th, 2005, 03:12 PM
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Well, warm day today and I put a new set of plugs in. While I had them out, I also checked the markings for the harmonic balancer. It was about 4 degrees off, when the cylinder was at TDC, the balancer said around 4-5 after.

That explains that issue, and why it had been timed so far advanced when I first got the truck.

Also, I DON"T like Napa plug wires, they seem like the connectors are bigger than needed on the plug side and don't appear to be making great contact. New wires in a couple paychecks I think.

-Hans
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  #20  
Old February 5th, 2005, 08:07 PM
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Hans, which way cools of the manifolds? I would think retarding the timing would do that, but what you wrote above seems to say that advancing the timing would cool them. But doesn't too much advance lead to pre-ignition and hot heads?

Took the plastic shock tower caps off today -- man that opens up a lot of air flow into the engine bay. Not a lot of rain out here is Southern Cal so I think it'll be okay. Anyone else done this?



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