rte radius arms causing axle to foul panhard bracket - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old July 25th, 2014, 06:24 PM
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rte radius arms causing axle to foul panhard bracket

I just recently installed some absurdly cranked radius arms from rte which did wonders for my caster and pinion angles. However as the arms are longer than stock by about an inch, the unused panhard mount on my axle fouls the bolt head on the panhard bracket itself.

Has anyone else experienced this? Any issues with simply cutting a notch out of the unused panhard mount on the axle?
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  #2  
Old July 25th, 2014, 06:47 PM
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thanks jeff, the steering box leak is on the short list of things to replace. I think I have a pic of the bump stops somewhere around here...

------ Follow up post added July 25th, 2014 06:49 PM ------

Btw, these radius arms are for a 5" lift and therefore hella long However, that's exactly what I wanted.

Regardless, even those people running 5 inch lifts should be running into this problem as well.
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  #3  
Old July 29th, 2014, 09:53 PM
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bump stops
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  #4  
Old July 29th, 2014, 10:33 PM
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Pretty sure he wanted a pic of the bumps at compression. What springs are you running? What size tires?
It could be that not many other people are experiencing this problem because they are running taller springs and taller tires which results in less uptravel in a roundabout way.
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Old July 29th, 2014, 11:07 PM
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not sure i follow. how do i go to full compression when the axle hits the panhard bracket?

tires are 32x10.5r16.

springs are 2 inch lift. 3 inch going in soon.

neither would affect full compression height.
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  #6  
Old July 29th, 2014, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
not sure i follow. how do i go to full compression when the axle hits the panhard bracket?

tires are 32x10.5r16.

springs are 2 inch lift. 3 inch going in soon.

neither would affect full compression height.
Those arms are meant for 5" springs. 5" springs are tall and stiff as hell. 5" springs will also push your axle down more which means the axle won't be as far forward as yours is on 2" springs.
So your axle is too far forward and your springs are too short.

You can correct a few different ways.
1) taller springs
2) shorter arms
3) taller bumpstops to reduce uptravel
4) cut the bracket off

I'd probably go #4.
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Old July 30th, 2014, 12:10 AM
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good stuff fish, thanks!
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  #8  
Old July 30th, 2014, 12:24 AM
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X2. Don't think rte meant those arms for a defender... For some reason I thought the 5" kit was just for rrc and d1 to clear tires... Defenders don't need that kind of lift...
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  #9  
Old July 30th, 2014, 08:47 AM
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Do they have the spacers like the rear? When I talked to Bill at RTE he said those arms arm made for zero-5" and that the spacers are used to adjust for spring height. Maybe try taking out some of the spacers? If there are some? Not sure
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Old July 30th, 2014, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishEH View Post
Those arms are meant for 5" springs. 5" springs are tall and stiff as hell. 5" springs will also push your axle down more which means the axle won't be as far forward as yours is on 2" springs.
So your axle is too far forward and your springs are too short.

You can correct a few different ways.
1) taller springs
2) shorter arms
3) taller bumpstops to reduce uptravel
4) cut the bracket off

I'd probably go #4.
I'm with Brett on #4, unless you're converting the steering side any time soon.
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  #11  
Old July 30th, 2014, 09:17 AM
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Have you replaced the panhard rod with an adjustable one ? This is what you are supposed to do when lifting the truck and using these components that add flex. The panhard rod's function is to keep the axle centered. It sounds like if you are hitting things on compression that function is off.

I had this issue on Big Green aka Shreck and that is how I corrected it.
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  #12  
Old July 30th, 2014, 09:21 AM
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Brett nailed it here.

Ed, you are a good guy and a friend, so let me just just cut to the chase. You are being a dumbass. Sorry. Stop. There's no way your caster can be anywhere near correct now. By installing a 5" RTE arm you have over corrected your caster. There is no need for caster correction on a 2" lift. How big tires are you planning to run??? Lots of folks here are running 33's with a 2" lift, some with less I believe. Cutting the axle means you have hacked (in the bad way not the buzzfeed hipster way) your truck to make a dangerous and pointless modification to your suspension.

That said, when you die, can I have your stock narrow radius arms?






Quote:
Originally Posted by fishEH View Post
Those arms are meant for 5" springs. 5" springs are tall and stiff as hell. 5" springs will also push your axle down more which means the axle won't be as far forward as yours is on 2" springs.
So your axle is too far forward and your springs are too short.

You can correct a few different ways.
1) taller springs
2) shorter arms
3) taller bumpstops to reduce uptravel
4) cut the bracket off

I'd probably go #4.
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  #13  
Old July 30th, 2014, 09:22 AM
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I guess another question would be, what does your prop shaft angle look like??
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  #14  
Old July 30th, 2014, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewie212 View Post
Do they have the spacers like the rear? When I talked to Bill at RTE he said those arms arm made for zero-5" and that the spacers are used to adjust for spring height. Maybe try taking out some of the spacers? If there are some? Not sure
That's only for the trailing arms. Because the trailing arms only mount to the axle in one spot you can use spacers to adjust the pinion angle and to lengthen the arms.
You could theoretically use spacers on the radius arms if you had enough thread exposed but that would only serve to lengthen the arms which definitely isn't needed here. Plus doing so wouldn't change the castor/pinion. One of the often overlooked benefits of the RTE arms is that they are cranked. Sure they correct castor to a point but perhaps more importantly they alleviate bushing bind at the chassis, something arms from QT, TF, and Adrenaline don't seem to do.

I don't think cutting an unused panhard bracket will am out to killing a bus full of nuns. Obviously there's a lot more going on here like driveline angles and such but you shouldn't have any problem popping off that bracket.

3" RTE Progressive springs. Pardon the dirt.
At rest:


Compressed:
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Old July 30th, 2014, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Douglas View Post
Have you replaced the panhard rod with an adjustable one ? This is what you are supposed to do when lifting the truck and using these components that add flex. The panhard rod's function is to keep the axle centered. It sounds like if you are hitting things on compression that function is off.

I had this issue on Big Green aka Shreck and that is how I corrected it.
I 2nd this. The stock one on my D90 was bent and replaced with a RovingTracks. When it went back to stock (when I sold it) I got a non-bent stock one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcadeus View Post
Defenders don't need that kind of lift...
I've been reading/subscribed to Rango's flat fender build over on Pirate for a while. I stumbled upon it one day and liked Mieser's work and it's a really cool looking rig even tho it is a Jeep. Anyway - his build is ultra low and seems to have worked well on the Ultimate Adventure trip. Seems the only thing he had trouble on was deep water.

Here is a link to his build thread but starting on the UA trip writeup. It's a good read:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/jeep-...lys-mb-88.html

------ Follow up post added July 30th, 2014 10:17 AM ------

FishEH - side topic but where did you get the mount for the front stabilizer? I am going to use a Disco I steering arm/TRE for my build. Going to sleeve a stock Disco cross/steering rod.

Found a better picture of what I am talking about on your truck:
http://smg.photobucket.com/user/fish...36cc0.jpg.html
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Old July 30th, 2014, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by don View Post
FishEH - side topic but where did you get the mount for the front stabilizer? I am going to use a Disco I steering arm/TRE for my build. Going to sleeve a stock Disco cross/steering rod.

Found a better picture of what I am talking about on your truck:
http://smg.photobucket.com/user/fish...36cc0.jpg.html
Its an O.D. Tube Clamp from Ballistic Fab with two tabs welded on. I think I made the tabs myself but any shock tabs should work provided the through bolt hole is the correct diameter.
http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/...mp_p_1474.html
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Old July 30th, 2014, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishEH View Post
Its an O.D. Tube Clamp from Ballistic Fab with two tabs welded on. I think I made the tabs myself but any shock tabs should work provided the through bolt hole is the correct diameter. http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/...mp_p_1474.html
Ah, cool - thanks for the link!
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  #18  
Old July 30th, 2014, 01:50 PM
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I will measure caster and pinion angle tonight. Upon inspection, caster appears to be around +6 degrees. I believe factory spec is +3.8 degrees, but either way the truck is driving fine (and the steering self centers much better than with the original arms.)

Dave, you can have my radius arms for $100 once I get all these issues sorted out

This all might be a huge waste of time, but hopefully it will leave meaningful information on the web for others to look at. At the worst it will be a learning experience for everyone!
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  #19  
Old July 30th, 2014, 02:40 PM
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That extra caster should make it super fun reversing down a steep hill. You need another 3" of lift. You gonna run 37s?
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Old July 30th, 2014, 10:51 PM
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I can't imagine anyone running a 5 inch lift and 37's...
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