RRC - zf slipping on warmup - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old May 15th, 2014, 09:47 AM
corrumpu
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chris b
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RRC - zf slipping on warmup

Not a defender or a series, but I know this board has much love for the RRCs.

I have a 95 RRC 3.9 with a zf auto box that is now slipping after sitting for a long period (ie 8 hours of work or overnight) it's not making any horrible sounds, just not putting all the power out. It started as a hard shift (from 1st to 2nd), but now has progressed to slipping in first. After I let it warm up/drive a short distance it seems to "wake up" so to speak and then is fine from there on out (for that drive).

I recently did some deep water crossings, which I knew had possibly allowed water in. I have changed all fluids. (engine, diffs, xfer case, swivel balls and the zf box) I didn't swap the filter, I just did a dump of fluid, ~5 quarts, refill, drive, repeat. I only found water in one swivel ball and one diff. I never saw any water or milky look to the others (especially the transmission) This transmission was swapped about 3-4 years ago from a low mileage disco. Sourced from willtillery so it's not an original with never changed fluid. (I have heard/read stories about issues after touching the fluid in an older transmission, which there seemed to much debate about the dangers of flushing on high mileage boxes)


This is my daily driver and I love her so! What, if anything, can I or should I do? Or do I just start looking for another auto box and prepare for a swap.

Thanks in advance!
--chris
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  #2  
Old May 15th, 2014, 10:11 AM
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Do you have the level correct?
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  #3  
Old May 15th, 2014, 10:13 AM
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I'd say listen to your truck. She may be telling you to start shopping for a replacement unit. This gives you the time to pick up the best possible unit at the best possible price and not be rushed to buy while your truck is on the operating table. Removing a unit before she's exploded is probably worth a bit more to someone that wants to rebuild it. Maybe give the guys at Ashcroft a call?

Clay
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  #4  
Old May 15th, 2014, 10:42 AM
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Or it's the torque converter.
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  #5  
Old May 15th, 2014, 11:25 AM
corrumpu
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chris b
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I am fairly certain the level is correct though I will double check. I went very slowly when topping off the fluid. I am aware of the warning for not overfilling.

I am an internet mechanic. I do anything that I can gather enough info on from (google/rave/forums) What are the clues that it is coming from the torque converter? Or better phrased.. how can i rule out the transmission vs torque converter being the root cause? What variables/data can I use to distinguish?
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  #6  
Old May 15th, 2014, 11:55 AM
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These transmissions are sensitive to NEW fluid changes. IF you have not been changing the fluid about every 60K miles, here's what happens. The strong detergents in the new ATF will cause fine particles (which pass right through the filter which is simply a screen ) to be liberated from the clutch discs. Those particles tend to settle in what is called the governor valve, on the rear of the transmission, and the valve body. From what others have said the problem will only get worse and will require a rebuild to simply just clean and replace the clutches in the transmission. This is not a complicated trany and there is lots of information on the web about it, many RRC articles too on it, here is one
http://www.classicroverforum.net/vie...5069&start=195

Also search in this forum for other posts about this trany.

The Disco 1's had these tranys so there are many to be found. The Zf4HP22 was in production for over 20 years and were used in hundreds of vehicles. It's a VERY reliable transmission but it does have this fluid sensitivity issue. Jaggi in Houston sells parts & does rebuilds.
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  #7  
Old May 15th, 2014, 12:27 PM
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Make sure and check it cold.
Start the truck, run the shifter from P to R to D a few times, then put it in N.
Pull the dipstick, wipe clean, and check the level while truck is running and still cold.
Shouldn't take but about a minute.



.
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  #8  
Old May 15th, 2014, 12:59 PM
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Whats interesting about this is that its getting bad as it gets warmer. Usually its cold weather that triggers this kind of behavior.

Since you've replaced the fluid, the only other maintenance item is the filter. since you don't know the miles, I'd be tempted to change it.
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  #9  
Old May 15th, 2014, 01:49 PM
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I know little, but my uneducated opinion is shared with bill - torque converter or whatever fluid is in the torque converter
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  #10  
Old May 15th, 2014, 02:21 PM
corrumpu
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chris b
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Rocky,
I guess I explained it poorly. It is only exhibiting issues (hard shift from 1 to 2nd and slipping) when cold. Now I live in florida so cold isn't cold, but a cold engine. After a few hours (8 hours at work or 12 overnight) it does this. I drove around the block this am before work. It was slipping at first but soon it starting to feel normal and no issues shifting. A cold start seems to have the issue.

I checked the fluid and it looks a bit low. I will top it off and see how that effects it. Could these symptoms be indicative of running it low fluid?
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  #11  
Old May 15th, 2014, 02:42 PM
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On the dip stick, the difference between the two marks is only 8 ounces. The stick does not go down into the pan but only the verticle portion of the tube. The fluid actually fills a portion of the bottom of the transmission body.
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  #12  
Old May 30th, 2014, 09:12 AM
corrumpu
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chris b
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So just to put this to rest.. even though it isn't the best outcome ( not finding the issue outright)

I just hate when things go this way but I'm happy to be driving my truck again. I much prefer to find out the issue and fix it, but I'll take what I can get.

The hard shift/warmup issue has gone away (magically) after I had to tow a boat for a short distance. I towed my 27' pontoon around the corner, put it in the water and then took it back out. After towing this load my truck shifts perfectly fine cold/warm/hot. Not sure what exactly that did to it, but the issue has all but evaporated.

damn gremlins.

--chris
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  #13  
Old May 30th, 2014, 11:29 AM
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I find this interesting. I guess if your transmission is slipping go tow a boat. You'll either fix it or finish it off. Lol
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  #14  
Old May 30th, 2014, 11:41 AM
corrumpu
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chris b
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Yeah.. it stopped slipping after the first day or so and just wouldn't shift from 1st to 2nd (for the first 800 meters or so regardless of RPM)

My vehicle is a tool, use that shit until it breaks. Fix it or get another one.
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