Rovertrack's Sewer Cap Info Needed - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old March 18th, 2005, 10:14 AM
Eric Siepmann
Status: Offline
Eric W. Siepmann
1997 Defender 90 SW
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Chicago, IL, Cook
Posts: 883
Rovertrack's Sewer Cap Info Needed

Got my Rovertracks Sewer Cap in the mail yesterday. Got me thinking about the install. I am leaning toward taking the entire axle assembly off, cutting the old housing off and welding the cover on. I was also considering Keith's 2x4 and tack weld method as it seems quicker and just as structurally sound.

Who is running the caps? How were they installed? And how is the final result?

Appreciate your input.

Thanks.

EwS
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old March 18th, 2005, 10:19 AM
Mike Hippert's Avatar
Mike Hippert
Status: Offline
D-90Slut/Stalker,SNLPres
94 D-90 Grinding Rover
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Manchester NH USA
Posts: 4,789
Eric, Keith is a helpful and cool guy, you could ask him directly, I also know Yousef is running the sewer cap on his front and it has held up very well, but I think Keith installed his. And when you do install it, maybe you could take some pics for all of us here and tell us how it goes.
__________________
Don't forget to
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
first then ask questions later! The loose nut behind the wheel
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old March 18th, 2005, 10:45 AM
Eric Siepmann
Status: Offline
Eric W. Siepmann
1997 Defender 90 SW
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Chicago, IL, Cook
Posts: 883
Mike,

I spoke with Keith and he went over the 2x4 and tack weld method with me when I bought it.

I will happily post pics when I install it.

Yousef? I need some of your technical urban ninja knowledge!

EwS
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old March 18th, 2005, 05:21 PM
m.olivares's Avatar
m.olivares
Status: Offline
marc olivares
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: salt lake city
Posts: 48
Eric

i pulled my axles from the vehicle when i did mine

but i used pipe cap from a piping supply store not rovertracks
w/ mine, i pulled the axles, ground of the weld on the stock cap, and welded sewer cap in it's place
things to keep in mind. make sure there is plenty of room for the ring gear and that the bung and plug is in about the same place as stock. i actually raised mine up just a bit to get more diff fluid in the housing.
i wouldn't suggest this approach unless like mine your pinion points way up at the transfer case. but thats a wole other issue.

email me i can walk you through it
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old March 21st, 2005, 11:56 PM
Tawayama's Avatar
Tawayama
Status: Offline
Michael Slade
No Land Rovers
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Riverton, Utah, USA
Posts: 384
Every truck I have has sewer caps front and back ('cept for the Sals on the CrewCab). Cooper made ours from scratch and Keith is taking his design and selling it (with Timm's blessing).

You'll want to take the axles off of the truck, dissasemble them completely and do the install.

One thing to remember is to watch that clearance on the front panhard rod. It can be VERY CLOSE if you're not careful.

Also, you might want to run a bead of RTV on the inside of the sewercap just in case your welds are porous.

Good luck. :D
__________________
Michael Slade
www.tawayama.com
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old August 12th, 2005, 06:11 PM
cbass's Avatar
cbass
Status: Offline
Bradlee Duncan
'94 White and '95 Red D's
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: SLC, Utah, USA
Posts: 540
About the panhard rod, how far would you have to adjust it to get the sewer cap in there? Could you just tweak the stocker a little more if the length was already adjustable?
__________________
Mom: "Boy, you got champagne taste on a beer budget."
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old July 28th, 2009, 12:49 PM
Gore Ranger's Avatar
Gore Ranger
Status: Offline
Jeff
1989 RRC
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 536
I hit my front sewer cap yesterday wheeling and it made a huge crack in the cap several inches long. Gear oil started leaking out pretty severely. My buddy had the idea to JB weld it, so I could drive it home. Got a couple of questions:

1. Has anyone else had one fail in this manner? I only wheel a few times a year and this cap is only a year old and has only been in contact with rocks a few times. I was very suprised at the failure since I just got finished bragging to my buddy about how bombproof they are.
2. After reading up on JB Weld, it looks like it is very hard to remove. Would it be stupid to run it as is, or would you have it repaired?
3. If you had it repaired, would you go to the time and effort to grind off the JB weld and weld the crack? Or would you cut off the sewer cap and put on a brandy new one? Keep in mind the metal is .375" thick. Can I even grind that off with a normal angle grinder, or would you take it to someone with something like a plasma cutter?

I am considering putting some more JB weld over the first JB weld because believe it or not it is still leaking a bit. Then, waiting until the winter when I do not drive much, and removing the front axle housing so that I can cut it off and replace more easily.

I am pretty bummed. Its one of about six issues I currrently have with my truck and really cannot afford to throw any more money at it right now. I guess my only consolation is taht if that was the stock cover it would have taken out my brand new 4.10 gear set I bet. PS this is the obstacle on wheeler lake that I fractured it on...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	P7280004.JPG
Views:	192
Size:	281.2 KB
ID:	20742   Click image for larger version

Name:	P7280006.JPG
Views:	159
Size:	208.1 KB
ID:	20743  

Click image for larger version

Name:	P7280007.JPG
Views:	157
Size:	246.4 KB
ID:	20744   Click image for larger version

Name:	P7270001.JPG
Views:	158
Size:	212.8 KB
ID:	20745  

Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old July 28th, 2009, 01:12 PM
mightymg's Avatar
mightymg
Status: Offline
Lane Farka
97 D90, 05 LR3, 95 RRC LWB
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Clinton Ut
Posts: 744
Ive wailed mine on my disco truggy and ive never had my sewer caps budge! thats amazing it did that...


I would grind off the the JB weld, CLean it up and re weld the crack..
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old July 28th, 2009, 03:21 PM
Gore Ranger's Avatar
Gore Ranger
Status: Offline
Jeff
1989 RRC
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 536
the weld around the mating surface did not fail. there is a large crack a few inches inboard from the mating surface as a result of an impact I believe. the strange thing is there were a few scrapes and whatnot (afterall it is a very shart, rocky trail) but nothing major where we thought, oh no, better get out and check underneath.

Also, when we first started the trail, I had a difficult time getting the LT230 to go into low gear. After rolling in reverse it finally engaged. About 10 feet after getting it into gear, we heard a very loud bang. The loudest noise I have ever heard while 4 wheeling. It sounded like we had broken the tranmsission or transfer case or both. My initial thought was the diff lock winding/unwinding or a fork engaging in there or something.

After we discovered the sewer cap was leaking badly, my buddy asked if there were diff breathers and perhaps the pressure ruptured it. Is that really stupid or could something like that happen? We only mentioned that because literally I do not recall hitting a rock that hard to crack it. the two are probably unrelated but could the pressure buildup cause a stress crack?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old July 28th, 2009, 03:25 PM
Wolf Fabrication's Avatar
Wolf Fabrication
Status: Offline
Sterling Archer
'08 D3
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Oahu, HI
Posts: 7,453
Registry
Are the sewer caps cast steel? It seemed like that when I welded one on a buddy's truck. If that's the case, then they'll crack.
__________________
"The most unreliable car in the world is the most reliable car in the world." -Jeremy Clarkson refering to the Range Rover


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Semper Fi!
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old July 28th, 2009, 03:48 PM
Buckon37s's Avatar
Buckon37s
Status: Offline
Buck
Re-Fendered 90
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Temecula, CA, USA
Posts: 3,376
No,

Diff fluid pressure can't crack it. That would take enough pressure to send it into space, and there is a breather. Looking at your break I would put 10to1 you transferred too much heat when you welded it and perhaps hardened the material to the point of being brittle. I would not weld that again. I would cut it off for sure. If you were close to me I could plasma it off and weld a new one for you. Keep in mind that it *may* not be your fault even if it is heat transfer. I willing to bet the sewer caps are made from the cheapest material around and could have had a carbon deposit or other junk in there. Cracking 3/8 steel is damn hard. An impact strong enough to do that if everything was kosher would make your jaw hurt.
__________________
2009 King of the Hammers

BUCK Wild Racing
Driver: Me
Co-driver: Pat Quirk
Team 911

Rover Tracks
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PSC
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DJ Safety
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
West Coast Rovers
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reel Driveline
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Made it further than half of the other guys, but the Hammers won.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old July 28th, 2009, 04:02 PM
Gore Ranger's Avatar
Gore Ranger
Status: Offline
Jeff
1989 RRC
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckon37s
No,

Diff fluid pressure can't crack it. That would take enough pressure to send it into space, and there is a breather. Looking at your break I would put 10to1 you transferred too much heat when you welded it and perhaps hardened the material to the point of being brittle. I would not weld that again. I would cut it off for sure. If you were close to me I could plasma it off and weld a new one for you. Keep in mind that it *may* not be your fault even if it is heat transfer. I willing to bet the sewer caps are made from the cheapest material around and could have had a carbon deposit or other junk in there. Cracking 3/8 steel is damn hard. An impact strong enough to do that if everything was kosher would make your jaw hurt.
Thanks Buck, that is good info. Since the sewer cap itself is relatively cheap, I'll probably get another one just for peace of mind. Since I do not know how to weld (yet, I am thinking about buying one) it was originally done by a LR shop. It might not make a difference, but I know it was done with the axle in situ. Not sure about the heat transfer since I dont know anything about welding at this point. The weld around the cap looked fine though. Would you remove the axle case when redoing it or cut it off and reweld in place?

Definitely no jarring hits that day. Maybe a few scrapes but like you said, that shouldn't crack 3/8 steel I wouldnt think.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old July 28th, 2009, 05:20 PM
Gore Ranger's Avatar
Gore Ranger
Status: Offline
Jeff
1989 RRC
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 536
I also thought the diff might have exploded, but when I drained it, no metal came out. I also figured I would hear some grinding and whatnot on the drive home from that area if the diff had exploded. I am going to need to pull it out anyway to have it fixed so I guess that should be my next move.

I do not believe that the sewer cap was ground down on the inside at all for clearance. In the front I still have Rover stuff, not toyota, and I do not remember any area on the inside being ground down before it was installed.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old July 28th, 2009, 05:21 PM
cbass's Avatar
cbass
Status: Offline
Bradlee Duncan
'94 White and '95 Red D's
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: SLC, Utah, USA
Posts: 540
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSBriggs
Did your diff explode and crack it from the inside? Did the crack originate from where it was ground thin, for ring gear clearance? Either way it seems odd. I'm certainly not doubting that it cracked, but force needed to do so would (at least in my mind) need to be substantial.

-Jeff
That's what I was thinking. When I blew out my diff, there sure was a loud bang. Still would have taken a weakened metal to crack like that but I would think a force inside is more likely the culprit than one outside especially since you don't remember anything except for that big bang.
__________________
Mom: "Boy, you got champagne taste on a beer budget."
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old July 28th, 2009, 05:24 PM
Gore Ranger's Avatar
Gore Ranger
Status: Offline
Jeff
1989 RRC
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 536
Now I am really curious. Might try to make time to pull the diff tonight.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old July 28th, 2009, 05:59 PM
mightymg's Avatar
mightymg
Status: Offline
Lane Farka
97 D90, 05 LR3, 95 RRC LWB
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Clinton Ut
Posts: 744
It also depends on what version of sewer cap you got from keith. his first units were just a cut down cap, the second gen which is currently in production, is machined to be a closer fit, i have personally put 4 of these on myself, I am still suprised it cracked from a rock hit. Most likey its exactly what Bucksticles said, it was a bad batch with crappy material and therfore it was weak...
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old July 28th, 2009, 06:27 PM
Gore Ranger's Avatar
Gore Ranger
Status: Offline
Jeff
1989 RRC
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 536
it's the new version...
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old July 28th, 2009, 10:07 PM
Buckon37s's Avatar
Buckon37s
Status: Offline
Buck
Re-Fendered 90
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Temecula, CA, USA
Posts: 3,376
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbass
That's what I was thinking. When I blew out my diff, there sure was a loud bang. Still would have taken a weakened metal to crack like that but I would think a force inside is more likely the culprit than one outside especially since you don't remember anything except for that big bang.


Guys,

3/8 steel can stop most bullets. Unless there was a .30-06 round accidently left in the diff, I seriously doubt that had anything to do with it.

Follow-up Post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gore Ranger
Thanks Buck, that is good info. Since the sewer cap itself is relatively cheap, I'll probably get another one just for peace of mind. Since I do not know how to weld (yet, I am thinking about buying one) it was originally done by a LR shop. It might not make a difference, but I know it was done with the axle in situ. Not sure about the heat transfer since I dont know anything about welding at this point. The weld around the cap looked fine though. Would you remove the axle case when redoing it or cut it off and reweld in place?

Definitely no jarring hits that day. Maybe a few scrapes but like you said, that shouldn't crack 3/8 steel I wouldnt think.
Just to give you an idea, I hit my diff so hard in KOH that the rear of the truck lifted nearly to the limit straps and I only had a little dent from it The Spiders are only .25. If you hit it hard enough to crack it you would know.

Chances are they shop burned it in way too hot and if they were super shady, they quenched it or even filled it with diff fluid while it was hot. There is no reason why you can't do the fix with the axle on the truck. Just be sure to keep the heat at a decent level. It really shouldn't matter at all with a chunk of steel that thick, but a carbon pocket or something else wierd in the cap itself is the only thing that could explain this.
__________________
2009 King of the Hammers

BUCK Wild Racing
Driver: Me
Co-driver: Pat Quirk
Team 911

Rover Tracks
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PSC
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DJ Safety
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
West Coast Rovers
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reel Driveline
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Made it further than half of the other guys, but the Hammers won.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old July 29th, 2009, 01:44 PM
cbass's Avatar
cbass
Status: Offline
Bradlee Duncan
'94 White and '95 Red D's
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: SLC, Utah, USA
Posts: 540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckon37s
Guys,

3/8 steel can stop most bullets. Unless there was a .30-06 round accidently left in the diff, I seriously doubt that had anything to do with it.
Hence the phrase: "Still would have taken a weakened metal to crack like that"
__________________
Mom: "Boy, you got champagne taste on a beer budget."
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old August 5th, 2009, 10:46 PM
revor's Avatar
revor
Status: Offline
Keith Kreutzer
Old beat up 110
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Longmont, Colorado
Posts: 998
Jeff,
Give me a call, I will get you a new cap in trade for your old one. Maybe we can get to the bottom of this very surprizing occurance!
__________________
Keith

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



Big, Red and ... aaa Red..
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions

Tags
ac, rack

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Electric Cooling Fan 97 info needed. WHITE RHINO Defender Technical Discussions 8 January 8th, 2012 02:11 PM
D-90 air filter housing cap needed (horn) arbik Wanted 4 November 30th, 2010 12:45 PM
tool info needed Rover- Girl Defender Technical Discussions 3 March 31st, 2006 04:03 PM
Sewer pipe cap diff cover writeup mudrover Defender Technical Discussions 7 August 29th, 2005 11:39 PM
Info needed on Arb air locker. rustydefender Defender Technical Discussions 5 January 9th, 2005 03:46 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:57 PM.


Copyright