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  #61  
Old November 9th, 2015, 02:55 PM
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It would be nice to here how ECR managed client expectations in the early years. I'm fairly sure they can say stuff like this today but I highly doubt they started off telling clients it will take 12+ months before they'll see their truck.
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  #62  
Old November 9th, 2015, 03:12 PM
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I would say in ECR's early days companies didn't live and die by forums. Now it is a different game and good or bad it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure the basics out.


Things I have heard about ECR:

There can be a huge wait where your truck sits until they have time to start it but once it's your turn the work is done quickly without interruptions.
They post progress pics on Facebook and email pics to clients showing what they are doing.

As for the wait and setting expectations, this goes back to communication. I am sure if a shop is in constant communication and explains the delays it is less of an issue. It's when they don't return calls that issues come up.

Here is a good one. My friend was having work done on his house. Contractors called in sick. He caught them on another job when he was driving around. They apologized and claimed the other client was bitching about timing but the damage was done. Poor planning and bullshit excuses ruined their reputation.
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  #63  
Old November 9th, 2015, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1of40 View Post
It would be nice to here how ECR managed client expectations in the early years. I'm fairly sure they can say stuff like this today but I highly doubt they started off telling clients it will take 12+ months before they'll see their truck.
I think part of it is charging the amount of money they do.

I suspect the majority of the problems experienced with these failed shops is due to not charging enough money up front. Then, when reality hits and their initial estimate is too low, they stop work immediately until the customer pays more. And, as we have seen, customers do not like paying more. At all.

When a shop lowballs the initial cost to customers just to get business, they reap what they sow.
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  #64  
Old November 9th, 2015, 03:22 PM
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To keep from hijacking Cherie's thread I posted my experience with Geared. Cherie isn't alone!!
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  #65  
Old November 9th, 2015, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Mpfish82 View Post
To keep from hijacking Cherie's thread I posted my experience with Geared. Cherie isn't alone!!
http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...tml#post686835
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  #66  
Old November 9th, 2015, 03:32 PM
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Good point re no forums in the early days. The forums can giveth and taketh away sometimes.

15 years ago I found a black tag 72 911S near La Jolla that needed and engine, trans, interior and paint. Rather than bring it to the east coast I decided it made more sense to have the work done by an experienced SC shop. I also didn't want it to sit outside in the rain and snow waiting for parts. It took 22 months to finish. Partly because I was learning and it took me time to make decisions and find period correct components. There were many many times that they didn't return calls and I got worried. I knew I was out of sight out of mind. The key was to reel them back in which ever way I could and keep a positive relationship going. Easier to say than do.
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  #67  
Old November 9th, 2015, 04:09 PM
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Perhaps, in an effort to see this from Cheries viewpoint, she and Ron sent a truck, and money for a "bottom up" restoration to a company 21 months ago. She still has no truck and is unsure of the progress based on some images she has received.

There seems to be an issue with semantics and timing, which is slightly entertaining speculation based on her original post.

I believe Cherie and Ron should have gotten a contract before sending the truck and money to the shop. Warranty, if it is even offered, would be part of the contract and would not come into play before receipt of the truck. The details of the job (delivery date, outline of services, cost, etc.... (and there should be many etceteras)) would be in the original contract.

Timing would relate to having a lawyer look at all of this stuff before sending a truck and up front money to a shop.

Cherie, do you have an original contract for work? Is the company outside of the terms of the contract and is there a section in the contract regarding disputes?







Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherbear View Post
Is this a normal conversation??? Geared Restoration......21 months and counting on a Bottom up Ash Heller. Okay peeps what do you make of this conversation with person working on my truck..... Would love to hear from car restoring peeps.........

I sent......

And please send a copy of your warranty so I can forward it to my lawyer to assure it is okay just send to Ron's email

The reply.....

Cherie there is no warranty that we provide. We will absolutely stand behind our workmanship and will without question correct any issues on that front, however we aren't in a position to offer any coverage as far as parts failures and breakages are concerned.

We will do our best to make those types of things right, but I can't provide an ink and paper contract for that.

Geared Restoration At its finest
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  #68  
Old November 9th, 2015, 05:21 PM
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I begin by saying thank you for all of your input positive or negative and I apologize for not meeting the grammar standards of this forum...MY scattered previous post was written in haste and with too much emotion. I am a person who is extremely passionate and that sometimes gets the best of me.
Fact: I dropped my Truck off February 25, 2013. The Geared Team came with some very good recommendations and since they were just starting out it was our decision to invest our time and money into 3 young men who seemed extremely passionate in their dreams of getting a shop of the ground. There was a lot of discussion as to what we were looking for , suggestions made by both us and the Geared team. We asked that the truck be kept as close to original as possible thru the build and we were promised this would happen. We told them color choice: dark purple instead of original red and white roof as it was originally. I wanted to keep the integrity of the truck and the clean lines and I was told by Geared they agreed and this is how the build would proceed. A price , timeline and deposit was agreed upon and we left my truck with a positive outlook on our build.
In the last 21 months we have spoke with the Geared Team as the build evolved...I was told it was a work in progress. I admit there have been changes from the initial agreement due to but not limited to parts availability and reality of actually completing ideas that all involved came up with. I am not a uneducated woman nor am I a train wreck.( Although I do admit my post does resemble the train wreck part.) Each time we were asked for more money we happily sent it, knowing how the cash flow works in a startup business. I feel we were very realistic as to costs and the agreed cost of the build changed due to decisions all parties suggested or agreed upon and additional money and time was added at each change as they occurred. We were still very open minded as to costs and time at this stage of the build and never wanted something for nothing.
As the months moved on, we kept in communication with the Geared team and some of the time issues seemed reasonable in the beginning. We were asked for more money and foolishly we complied. I began to see more and more rigs go in and out of the shop and mine still sat stripped awaiting parts from the UK. I was told various stories as to the delays...locating parts, shipper not shipping in timely manner, shipper held funds etc, etc. If I am not mistaken it took 5 months for parts to arrive in states. Next the painter disappeared .... and of course this was not relayed to us until he had been MIA for months. They tried to find a painter within the original quote on paint two years ago .... so we asked what was needed to complete the job and yes you guessed it we sent more money.
I foolishly extended deadline after deadline. I suggested that they use my truck as a show piece in the First Overland Expo East 2014 upon completion. That date came and went ....more trucks in more trucks out. The communication began to become few and far between and by this time lots of gossip of trucks leaving Geared completed only to spend more time in another shop than on the road began to surface and we still stood by Geared and yes we gave them more money... I never participated in the gossip nor spoke ill of the team even when my name was given to potential customers by others. I only spoke of the time my truck has been there and could not comment on the quality of work since very little work had been completed on my truck. I was told 3 times by Bryan that he was full time on my truck only the last time being October 22. Yesterday yet again I am told of some personal issue and my truck has not been touched in two weeks. Promises made and broken nothing new.
I was lied to by Ash on the phone when I contacted him informing him of nasty post I was fighting to get pulled from the net concerning his first DUI. He told me the owner was present at the time of arrest which I later found out from the owner he was not. I succeeded in removing it within a half hour as I feel that is was not necessary ... we all make mistakes and have skeletons but yet I am accused of having an agenda by some of their friends. Until last night I had only spoken privately with other owners in similar situations who were given my contact info and story. I cannot tell you who many unanswered text messages and phones calls I have made literally 100s. I will admit I have left as many unladylike messages out of aggravation. The fact of the matter is if you have money to put on the table they will answer your call and if not your are pushed to the back of the shop for paying customers.
The only agenda I have is to get my truck back completed as promised. I had always heard this was a helpful, nonjudgmental forum.... this is why I posted an emotion filled post last night. I apologize for my lack of self control but I do not apologize for my post .... MY hope is if one person reads this and walks away from making a bad shop choice then it was worth all the ugly, unjustified comments some of you made about me personally ..... HEAR ME ROAR ........ (TRAIN WHISTLE IN THE DISTANCE....)
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  #69  
Old November 9th, 2015, 05:30 PM
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I don't have a dog in this particular fight, although I do know Ash and can assure you he's a good guy. Of course, like all of us, he has scheduling difficulties.

I can attest to the inability to schedule these jobs and I do not know of anyone else in the business who is all that much better.

I have multiple projects that consume multiple years, but when the work is finally done, all parties are satisfied.

But, I did want to address the issue of warranty.

I do think it is completely reasonable for a shop doing a rebuild (I do NOT do restorations as that brings out the rivet-counters and I do not do that sort of work) to offer a warranty on parts and the labor to replace those parts. My suppliers warranty the parts they sell to me and I warranty them to my customers. Sometimes my vendors don't honor my warranty claims, but my clients' warranties are honored.

Now if I have shop-fabricated a welded assembly or machined assembly, it's gonna be warranted for a LONG time as that's MY work right there!

I'm sure that if you were to ask Ash for a 12 month warranty on parts and the labor to install those parts, I suspect he would be amenable to that suggestion.

I'm off to call a friend of Ash's local to him to suggest Ash make an appearance and try to smooth things out here.
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  #70  
Old November 9th, 2015, 05:31 PM
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Cherie, I believe your story.

And I know PT. He's a good dude.


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  #71  
Old November 9th, 2015, 05:33 PM
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Ash doesn't make appearances unless he is paid ...he a charmer , a kid with no business sense and a liar
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  #72  
Old November 9th, 2015, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PTSchram View Post
I don't have a dog in this particular fight, although I do know Ash and can assure you he's a good guy. Of course, like all of us, he has scheduling difficulties.

I can attest to the inability to schedule these jobs and I do not know of anyone else in the business who is all that much better.
Glad you can assure us he is a good guy. A DUI is not a big deal. It happens to the best of us. A DUI in a customers car is another thing. What if he killed someone in the truck? Accident?

Wonder how many miles were put on it while it sat for five months not being worked on. My rage level would be through the roof.
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  #73  
Old November 9th, 2015, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PTSchram View Post

I'm off to call a friend of Ash's local to him to suggest Ash make an appearance and try to smooth things out here.
How long have you been on Discoweb? You should know by now that him coming into this thread is a bad idea!
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  #74  
Old November 9th, 2015, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by bjf View Post
Glad you can assure us he is a good guy. A DUI is not a big deal. It happens to the best of us. A DUI in a customers car is another thing. What if he killed someone in the truck? Accident?

Wonder how many miles were put on it while it sat for five months not being worked on. My rage level would be through the roof.
I read the whole thread and missed the part about a DUI in a client's truck. Which post was that?
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  #75  
Old November 9th, 2015, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by PTSchram View Post
I read the whole thread and missed the part about a DUI in a client's truck. Which post was that?
See the other thread.
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  #76  
Old November 9th, 2015, 07:06 PM
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I'm sorry for referring to you as a train wreck.

I hope you find justice.
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  #77  
Old November 9th, 2015, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
I'm sorry for referring to you as a train wreck. I hope you find justice.
Thanks for that ....my first post was a train wreck ....I let my emotions type instead of my brain .....it's cool thanks for the reality check
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  #78  
Old November 9th, 2015, 07:43 PM
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I originally posted about the absurdity of posting to a forum to either vent, slander, seek resolution or all three. I see now that you've done what you can via phone with no results. That being said, I still think this is the wrong forum. Good to know for the community? Absolutely! And I'm glad that there is accountability in this small community! However, looking at all of the info I think this case is better dealt with by a good lawyer rather than a forum. You've got a lot of money on the table and no truck to show for it... Others have had their truck essentially stolen for personal use. Don't give the defense anything to work with by posting anything further on here. Take it to court if you are sure you've exhausted all means... My two cents. Best of luck! Shitty situation
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  #79  
Old November 9th, 2015, 07:50 PM
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I originally posted about the absurdity of posting to a forum to either vent, slander, seek resolution or all three. I see now that you've done what you can via phone with no results. That being said, I still think this is the wrong forum. Good to know for the community? Absolutely! And I'm glad that there is accountability in this small community! However, looking at all of the info I think this case is better dealt with by a good lawyer rather than a forum. You've got a lot of money on the table and no truck to show for it... Others have had their truck essentially stolen for personal use. Don't give the defense anything to work with by posting anything further on here. Take it to court if you are sure you've exhausted all means... My two cents. Best of luck! Shitty situation
Lawyer won't get you anything but more bills. You can't squeeze water from a rock. Reading these threads, this kid (Ash) isn't going to have any money. Best thing to do would be go pick up your truck and whatever parts you can find.

Forums are perfect for situations like this. The type of folks that are going to restore a Defender are here. I got into this game because of this forum.
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  #80  
Old November 9th, 2015, 07:56 PM
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Wish I could add a poll to the middle of this thread to find out what people think is the worst offense:

  • DUI in a customer's car
  • Armed Robbery
  • Painting a Defender Purple
How the hell did Ash have a gun in the defender dash if he was previously convicted of armed robbery?
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