Really Tippy off road - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old August 21st, 2014, 04:17 PM
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Stephan Laputka
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Really Tippy off road

OK. I'm getting frustrated with trying to figure out why my D90 SW is sooo tippy off road. I've seen other Defenders with bigger tires, taller lifts and heavier loads on them driving sideways with no issue. I have 95 hardtop, 33 inch tires, RTE 2 inch springs, safety devices roof rack(which I only load with pillows or sleeping bags), Bilstien 7100s valved 360/80. From what I can tell via searches, it's fairly common setup so i don't know why my truck is being so weird. It's down right terrifying to drive, primarily it "swings" around going over bumps. It does not have sway bars but I've tried putting the front back on and I didn't notice much of an improvement. since the truck drives off road like it's on pogo sticks my only guess is shock valving. I've thus switched to Fox 2.0 shocks to see if what will help. On road, no issues. drives relatively stiff actually. Makes me think the shock has plenty of high speed dampening but absolutely zero low speed dampening.

That said, I'm about out of ideas. Could it be a geometry issue in the suspension or something else I'm not considering?
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  #2  
Old August 21st, 2014, 04:29 PM
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Chris
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Video?
Have you driven it without the rack on?
Have you driven other D90s?
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  #3  
Old August 21st, 2014, 04:42 PM
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Mark Bichin
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Supposedly correct valving for a d90 in 7100s is 400/100 but I don't know if that will make that much difference...

The front end has a lot of anti-sway built in because of the four link geometry... The rear is where all the flex is....

Do you have your springs retained? Makes a huge difference....

Did you look for bushing wear... Rear links and a arm?
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  #4  
Old August 21st, 2014, 04:55 PM
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John B.
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You wouldn't have a 3-link would you? I have soft springs and shocks, no sway bars and it is not tippy at all.
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  #5  
Old August 21st, 2014, 05:11 PM
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one thing to consider: shocks can't do anything if you have no droop.
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  #6  
Old August 21st, 2014, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
one thing to consider: shocks can't do anything if you have no droop.
Most of these trucks are setup with a lot of droop and little compression... But good point...
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  #7  
Old August 21st, 2014, 05:23 PM
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Adam
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Sounds like all the bushings in your rear suspension are shot and the ball joint is worn out.
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  #8  
Old August 21st, 2014, 06:05 PM
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shayne young
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You live in New York and take your 90 off road???..WTF.... I heard all you New York guys were just poseurs and only talk about how you would do it and show pics of how other people offroad..wouldn't wanna get those boosts dirty..!!!!....
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  #9  
Old August 21st, 2014, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
33 inch tires, RTE 2 inch springs
Sounds a bit much for 33in tires?

also, are the shocks charged up?
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  #10  
Old August 21st, 2014, 06:30 PM
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Stephan Laputka
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Car does not have a 3 link. Parked right next to mine is my brothers 94 D-90 ST. Granted, lighter up top and it's bone stock but it's like day and night on the trail. My Springs are not retained but why would that matter longest the springs weren't dislocating? Never drove it with the rack off but I feel it's been getting worse and worse.

The ball joint on the rear A arm is original. The boot is all torn up and probably needs to be fixed but why would that joint matter for stability?

I moved to San Francisco.. now the Rubicon is my closest trail and I can make Moab in a day. Jealous?
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  #11  
Old August 21st, 2014, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sflash868 View Post
Car does not have a 3 link. Parked right next to mine is my brothers 94 D-90 ST. Granted, lighter up top and it's bone stock but it's like day and night on the trail. My Springs are not retained but why would that matter longest the springs weren't dislocating? Never drove it with the rack off but I feel it's been getting worse and worse. The ball joint on the rear A arm is original. The boot is all torn up and probably needs to be fixed but why would that joint matter for stability? I moved to San Francisco.. now the Rubicon is my closest trail and I can make Moab in a day. Jealous?
If a arm ball is worn there will be more play in the rear as the trailing arms are then locating the rear axle....

Unretained springs give more of a tippy feeling as the rear end is less predictable... Retained springs also force the front end to articulate more... But it sounds like you are having issues during less extreme terrain.

2" of lift with 33s is fine... Ran that way for a while and was a good setup... Wouldn't have changed it if I hadn't wanted a taller tire...
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  #12  
Old August 21st, 2014, 07:11 PM
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Check the radius arm bushings at the axle.
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  #13  
Old August 21st, 2014, 07:16 PM
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Dude fix the obvious problems with the suspension first (thrashed 20 year old rear ball joint) to baseline it then go from there. Have any of the other suspension bushings been replaced or are they original too?

A bad ball joint will cause the "loose" rear end feeling you are describing. "Terrifying to drive, swings around over bumps"
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  #14  
Old August 21st, 2014, 09:21 PM
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Chris Davis
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Have you put it on its side? Maybe it just feels tipsy.
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  #15  
Old August 21st, 2014, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davis View Post
Have you put it on its side? Maybe it just feels tipsy.
Roll it over and report back.
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  #16  
Old August 21st, 2014, 09:48 PM
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ummmm - why don't you check first and see if you have anti sway bars...seems to me at least that he may not have them
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  #17  
Old August 22nd, 2014, 12:36 AM
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Anthony Nelson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the rover shop View Post
You live in New York and take your 90 off road???..WTF.... I heard all you New York guys were just poseurs and only talk about how you would do it and show pics of how other people offroad..wouldn't wanna get those boosts dirty..!!!!....

Watch it pal.
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  #18  
Old August 22nd, 2014, 10:11 AM
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Chris Baldewin
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This explains your Rubicon post from a couple of months ago. I was thinking that's a long haul from New York.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sflash868 View Post
I moved to San Francisco.. now the Rubicon is my closest trail and I can make Moab in a day. Jealous?
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  #19  
Old August 22nd, 2014, 10:29 AM
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I'm betting the Bilsteins need a charge
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  #20  
Old August 22nd, 2014, 10:55 AM
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shayne young
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That's definitely the most likely.. Without the shocks to dampen its side to side movement the body builds up momentum quickly and that momentum carries on uninterrupted until the spring pressure can overcome it and start tipping it back..
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