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  #61  
Old August 27th, 2014, 11:01 PM
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What you are referring to as creep is called "yield failure" which is when the stress applied to a material exceeds its yield strength, which is a function of its Young's modulus. This is called plastic deformation and occurs when a spring has been stressed to the point where it is permanently deformed.

True material creep is a function of a constant load applied to material over a long time scale. The material will slowly elongate and twist.

I don't know what function fatigue plays on coil springs but what I do know is that fatigue failures are often catastrophic failures in coil springs. I don't know what if any role fatigue plays in coil springs becoming weaker over time.
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  #62  
Old August 27th, 2014, 11:30 PM
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I understand what creep is. It does not affect the elastic stiffness of the spring. In this application, relaxation/creep/sag (all the same thing in this application) will not affect the geometry enough to cause any change in the spring rate. There are other spring applications that this can be possible, but this is not one.
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  #63  
Old August 27th, 2014, 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
This causes the length of the spring to increase over time and therefore the spring rate decreases.
This statement still confuses me. How does a bar become longer due to torsion at least in any measurable amount? Please provide some science to back this up.
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  #64  
Old August 28th, 2014, 01:09 AM
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Originally Posted by don View Post
Are you still running the slotted Poly's? I have them on my rebuild but won't be able to try them for a while - wanted to know if you were still happy with them. Probably wouldn't be too good big the vehicle is too tipsy.
Still have the slotted poly's. Haven't driven on them since May because my '98 took a shit so I'm building up a '95. I have been happy with them and will be swapping the radius arms bushings and all over to the new truck.I do plan on fabbing up and running some sort of rear sway bar tho. The slotted bushings do increase roll as do the jointed trailing arms. I'll probably just make up some extensions and run a modified stock sway bar out back.
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  #65  
Old August 28th, 2014, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by fishEH View Post
Still have the slotted poly's. Haven't driven on them since May because my '98 took a shit so I'm building up a '95. I have been happy with them and will be swapping the radius arms bushings and all over to the new truck.I do plan on fabbing up and running some sort of rear sway bar tho. The slotted bushings do increase roll as do the jointed trailing arms. I'll probably just make up some extensions and run a modified stock sway bar out back.
Yeah, I will most likely put a sway on the rear of the 110 at some point. I have Currie type arms from Buck that I will try and figure out how to mount.

Sorry that your '98 blew up - but at least you know what works and can do that on the '95 right off the bat. I am sure it will be a nice build.
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  #66  
Old August 28th, 2014, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by don View Post
Yeah, I will most likely put a sway on the rear of the 110 at some point. I have Currie type arms from Buck that I will try and figure out how to mount. Sorry that your '98 blew up - but at least you know what works and can do that on the '95 right off the bat. I am sure it will be a nice build.
I have a set of those arms as well as the requisite Isuzu torsion bar... I'm having a tough time figuring out where to place the thing on a NAS as the roll bar bracket ray tends to get in the way.
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  #67  
Old August 28th, 2014, 11:13 AM
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Elongation does not mean it is being pulled only in the axial direction (like pulling apart a stick of bubble gum) elongation can occur in a twisting motion.

The very fact that springs experience tensile failure means that they must experience elongation by definition.
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  #68  
Old August 28th, 2014, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
Elongation does not mean it is being pulled only in the axial direction (like pulling apart a stick of bubble gum) elongation can occur in a twisting motion.

The very fact that springs experience tensile failure means that they must experience elongation by definition.
Yes... The springs have permanent deformation in shear (there is little tensile stress) due to the torsion, causing a permanent twist. But that does not affect the stiffness and rate of the spring. You specifically said the spring bar becomes longer changing its geometry.
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  #69  
Old August 28th, 2014, 02:50 PM
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85/90 sounds like a good valving. I might have the rears done to that spec before I swap springs as I suspect this is mainly an issue with rebound and compression. If that doesn't work, I'll put the sway bar back on the front I guess.
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  #70  
Old August 28th, 2014, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by sflash868 View Post
85/90 sounds like a good valving. I might have the rears done to that spec before I swap springs as I suspect this is mainly an issue with rebound and compression. If that doesn't work, I'll put the sway bar back on the front I guess.
Why would you do that? The front is already stiff on these vehicles. Offroad tippiness on Rovers is unlikely to be coming from the front end.
Putting HD springs up front and Med in the back probably made things worse.
The front is stiff. The rear compensates and can result in a tippy feeling. The way to get the front to flex more is to stiffen up the rear. Put HD springs in the back. Add a sway bar in the back, not front. These things will force the front end to do a little more work.
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  #71  
Old August 28th, 2014, 03:11 PM
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but putting a sway bar on the back will totally kill the downward travel won't it? I'll go stiffer springs for sure.
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  #72  
Old August 28th, 2014, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by sflash868 View Post
but putting a sway bar on the back will totally kill the downward travel won't it? I'll go stiffer springs for sure.
Not if its done right. The stock swaybar is designed to work on a stock struck with stock geometry. When you lift a truck the whole swaybar rotates and points down even while at rest, because you're pushing the axle further from the chassis. Because its already pointing down there isn't much down travel left before the short links flip, break, or otherwise limit downtravel. The swaybar needs either longer links(better) or to be lowered(worse) to return it to its stock neutral position.

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  #73  
Old August 28th, 2014, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Arcadeus View Post
I have a set of those arms as well as the requisite Isuzu torsion bar... I'm having a tough time figuring out where to place the thing on a NAS as the roll bar bracket ray tends to get in the way.
I still need to get he Isuzu torsion bar - you don't happen to have a part number or truck model do you?

IIRC - akRover installed a Currie on his build which should be close. It might be easier to install on a 110 but still have a while before get to that point.

------ Follow up post added August 28th, 2014 03:50 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by fishEH View Post
Why would you do that? The front is already stiff on these vehicles. Offroad tippiness on Rovers is unlikely to be coming from the front end. Putting HD springs up front and Med in the back probably made things worse. The front is stiff. The rear compensates and can result in a tippy feeling. The way to get the front to flex more is to stiffen up the rear. Put HD springs in the back. Add a sway bar in the back, not front. These things will force the front end to do a little more work.
Exactly how I thought the suspension works on these vehicles. I would toss a sway on the back and get that A arm joint fixed. I found that when my NAS ST with stock springs, OME shocks and all new bushings in the sways that it cornered very well.

As I think of it maybe check you front panhard. When mine had a bend in it from when I got it and it helped when I put in a straight one. It might contribute to some squirrelly-ness
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  #74  
Old August 28th, 2014, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by fishEH View Post
Why would you do that? The front is already stiff on these vehicles. Offroad tippiness on Rovers is unlikely to be coming from the front end.
Putting HD springs up front and Med in the back probably made things worse.
The front is stiff. The rear compensates and can result in a tippy feeling. The way to get the front to flex more is to stiffen up the rear. Put HD springs in the back. Add a sway bar in the back, not front. These things will force the front end to do a little more work.
This is truth.

As it stands, the front is much more resistant to articulation than the back. If you want to balance out the feel of the overall truck, adding a swaybar to the back will help.
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  #75  
Old August 28th, 2014, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by don View Post
I still need to get he Isuzu torsion bar - you don't happen to have a part number or truck model do you? IIRC - akRover installed a Currie on his build which should be close. It might be easier to install on a 110 but still have a while before get to that point. ------ Follow up post added August 28th, 2014 03:50 PM ------ Exactly how I thought the suspension works on these vehicles. I would toss a sway on the back and get that A arm joint fixed. I found that when my NAS ST with stock springs, OME shocks and all new bushings in the sways that it cornered very well. As I think of it maybe check you front panhard. When mine had a bend in it from when I got it and it helped when I put in a straight one. It might contribute to some squirrelly-ness
It's the front torsion bar from a Isuzu rodeo or honda passport... Around mid to late 90s

------ Follow up post added August 28th, 2014 02:15 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by sflash868 View Post
but putting a sway bar on the back will totally kill the downward travel won't it? I'll go stiffer springs for sure.
We aren't talking the stock sway bar.... It's a specially designed bar that won't limit travel... It will lower the amount the rear articulates in a given situation but doesn't limit it....and it forces the front end to articulate more and evens it out between the front and rear....
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  #76  
Old August 28th, 2014, 06:53 PM
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Xeng UK makes a nice bit of kit for rear sway bars, can be disconnected for off-road; but that's the opposite of your problem
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  #77  
Old August 28th, 2014, 07:49 PM
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[QUOTE=Arcadeus;560184]It's the front torsion bar from a Isuzu rodeo or honda passport... Around mid to late 90s

------ Follow up post added August 28th, 2014 02:15 PM ------



Never heard of this swap before. What's the advantage over the LR bar?
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  #78  
Old August 28th, 2014, 07:57 PM
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It's a torsion bar that you use with buck wilds links to make a currie jointed anti rock sway bar... It doesn't limit your suspension travel like the stock one does... And it doesn't flip the links over when you over extend it like the stock one does...

------ Follow up post added August 28th, 2014 04:59 PM ------

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Originally Posted by Jtomchik View Post
Xeng UK makes a nice bit of kit for rear sway bars, can be disconnected for off-road; but that's the opposite of your problem
Isn't it over a grand for that setup? Also the pics I saw makes it look like it has horrible ground clearance... The one I was wanting gives you best of both worlds.... Use it on and off the road...
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  #79  
Old August 28th, 2014, 08:27 PM
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Any pics of this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcadeus View Post
I have a set of those arms as well as the requisite Isuzu torsion bar... I'm having a tough time figuring out where to place the thing on a NAS as the roll bar bracket ray tends to get in the way.
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  #80  
Old August 28th, 2014, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by cgalpin View Post
Any pics of this?
Click image for larger version

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ID:	101757 These are off of pirate.... I think frankenrover used one as well....


I just found a good post on this... Do a search for "rear anti rock" title only and include the quotes...
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