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  #21  
Old August 22nd, 2014, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crown14 View Post
I'm betting the Bilsteins need a charge
He stated that he changed to Fox shocks already with no change in the problem.
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  #22  
Old August 22nd, 2014, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
He stated that he changed to Fox shocks already with no change in the problem.
Whoops missed that
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  #23  
Old August 22nd, 2014, 11:19 AM
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Replace the a arm swivel... You are missing the primary (the a arm bushing flex less than the radius arm bushings as they are more centrally mounted to the axle housing via the swivel) locator of the rear axle... Of course it's going to wander...
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  #24  
Old August 25th, 2014, 01:29 PM
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Stephan Laputka
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I'll replace the ball joint, I just don't really understand how that will help me. It doesn't wander on the road anymore than your average lifted 90, it's only the side to side weight transfer that's out of control. Can't see how the center mounted ball joint is gonna effect that.

Radius arm bushings are new. Went to the orange poly bushes both at the axle and at the frame. Trailing arms are new ish. Probably a year old. They are OEM.

What about springs? I had RTEs in it but I noticed the front wasn't compressing. So i swapped the front springs with OME heavy dutys which had a lower spring rate than the RTEs. It also was a shorter spring and dropped the front .5 inch. I don't love the idea of a mismatched springs but the rear RTE has the highest spring rate I could find, even over the OME 762. The front compresses better but it's still not good.

I drove around last night and in steady state cornering (so shocks aren't a factor) it's seriously leaning over which made me think to come back here and post about the springs.. The RTEs are getting on 10 years old. Time to replace maybe? Do springs go bad?
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  #25  
Old August 25th, 2014, 01:52 PM
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Springs do settle and sag with age.
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A friend of mine runs a land rover / range rover specialty repair shop. Based on his experience, they are capable of stopping anywhere, anytime, at any cost.

I don't know about the brakes, only their unreliability.
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  #26  
Old August 25th, 2014, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sflash868 View Post
I'll replace the ball joint, I just don't really understand how that will help me. It doesn't wander on the road anymore than your average lifted 90, it's only the side to side weight transfer that's out of control. Can't see how the center mounted ball joint is gonna effect that.

Radius arm bushings are new. Went to the orange poly bushes both at the axle and at the frame. Trailing arms are new ish. Probably a year old. They are OEM.

What about springs? I had RTEs in it but I noticed the front wasn't compressing. So i swapped the front springs with OME heavy dutys which had a lower spring rate than the RTEs. It also was a shorter spring and dropped the front .5 inch. I don't love the idea of a mismatched springs but the rear RTE has the highest spring rate I could find, even over the OME 762. The front compresses better but it's still not good.

I drove around last night and in steady state cornering (so shocks aren't a factor) it's seriously leaning over which made me think to come back here and post about the springs.. The RTEs are getting on 10 years old. Time to replace maybe? Do springs go bad?
The front end doesn't like to compress/articulate. Its the radius arms, they bind quite a bit. SWB vehicle tend to feel tippy when you lift them, just the way it is. Probably look at replacing your rear springs at least and check your shocks. You could always toss a swaybar on there too.
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  #27  
Old August 25th, 2014, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sflash868 View Post
I'll replace the ball joint, I just don't really understand how that will help me. It doesn't wander on the road anymore than your average lifted 90, it's only the side to side weight transfer that's out of control. Can't see how the center mounted ball joint is gonna effect that. Radius arm bushings are new. Went to the orange poly bushes both at the axle and at the frame. Trailing arms are new ish. Probably a year old. They are OEM. What about springs? I had RTEs in it but I noticed the front wasn't compressing. So i swapped the front springs with OME heavy dutys which had a lower spring rate than the RTEs. It also was a shorter spring and dropped the front .5 inch. I don't love the idea of a mismatched springs but the rear RTE has the highest spring rate I could find, even over the OME 762. The front compresses better but it's still not good. I drove around last night and in steady state cornering (so shocks aren't a factor) it's seriously leaning over which made me think to come back here and post about the springs.. The RTEs are getting on 10 years old. Time to replace maybe? Do springs go bad?
The ball joint helps keep your axle centered under your truck... Similar to the pan hard bar up front... Not the same but it has the similar function... Your rear axle could be shifting sideways when you swing your weight on rougher terrain... On the road the pavement doesn't apply the same disparate torque and the rear links keep it in line.. I'm not 100% sure of this but it stands to reason... And it's the one thing in your rear suspension you know is buggered... Occams razor...
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  #28  
Old August 26th, 2014, 02:41 AM
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Would help if you posted a pic of your truck. We are really flying blind here trying to help you.

If your truck is leaning hard in turns, my first guess would be the front springs are way too soft. If you have stiffer springs than the 762's, then you're running 360 lb/in springs in the rear which are very hard (I run TF027V's which are 360 lb/in springs as well). This makes your front suspension work much harder, so I think you are going the wrong way with using lighter springs up front.

You said that the RTE springs "weren't compressing". Front springs do not compress all the way when they go over obstacles unless you place the front of the tire on an extremely tall obstacle (like you lift it with a forklift). When the front of the truck goes over an obstacle, weight transfers to the rear of the truck causing the opposite corner of the truck to go into deep compression. The only time the front springs will compress deeply is when the rear corners of the truck are over an obstacle, or when you massively jack up one of the front wheels - way past the height of a normal obstacle.
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  #29  
Old August 26th, 2014, 02:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
Would help if you posted a pic of your truck. We are really flying blind here trying to help you. If your truck is leaning hard in turns, my first guess would be the front springs are way too soft. If you have stiffer springs than the 762's, then you're running 360 lb/in springs in the rear which are very hard (I run TF027V's which are 360 lb/in springs as well). This makes your front suspension work much harder, so I think you are going the wrong way with using lighter springs up front. You said that the RTE springs "weren't compressing". Front springs do not compress all the way when they go over obstacles unless you place the front of the tire on an extremely tall obstacle (like you lift it with a forklift). When the front of the truck goes over an obstacle, weight transfers to the rear of the truck causing the opposite corner of the truck to go into deep compression. The only time the front springs will compress deeply is when the rear corners of the truck are over an obstacle, or when you massively jack up one of the front wheels - way past the height of a normal obstacle.
He said that it was getting worse...
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  #30  
Old August 26th, 2014, 02:55 AM
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It's hard to judge tippy on line. I have rte springs on my Truck, taken off my D1 where they worked well. On the 90 they are very very stiff
If I didn't have so many other bits to sort out, I'd be figuring out the spring rate etc and looking for something else.
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A friend of mine runs a land rover / range rover specialty repair shop. Based on his experience, they are capable of stopping anywhere, anytime, at any cost.

I don't know about the brakes, only their unreliability.
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  #31  
Old August 26th, 2014, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
The only time the front springs will compress deeply is when the rear corners of the truck are over an obstacle, or when you massively jack up one of the front wheels - way past the height of a normal obstacle.
This is incorrect. Any experienced driver will know that any spring can and will compress all the way either in cross axle situations or on a hard impact...(Sh)It happens. As Ed will soon find out since his shocks are too long...:P
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Present:
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  #32  
Old August 26th, 2014, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ren Ching View Post
This is incorrect. Any experienced driver will know that any spring can and will compress all the way either in cross axle situations or on a hard impact...(Sh)It happens. As Ed will soon find out since his shocks are too long...:P
Again, the front springs often appear to not compress because of the limited articulation the radius arms provide. The radius arm binding will cause the rear of the truck to do more work/springs compress more. On impact they should compress just fine, but who wants to Baja their Rover??

EDIT: I went back and read your original post. Tippiness offroad , IMO, comes from a lack of flex up front and the rearcompensating for it. Adding a sway bar up front only really works to further limit front axle articulation, it shouldn't improve your offroad handling at all, probably makes it worse. A sway bar out back would probably work better. And no, most shocks offer little suspension rigidity at slow speed crawling/offroading.
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  #33  
Old August 26th, 2014, 10:37 AM
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I removed all four shocks and sent them off to get rebuilt. I had to move the car in and out of the backyard a few times. It was amazing how wobbly it was. Shocks don't provide any lift but they do have a huge impact on "tippy".

You don't have to Baja your truck to bottom out a front shock. It can happen on a pothole.
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Present:
1960 SII 109"- "Red Square"
1984 90 Tdi- "Yamelo"
1988 RRC- "Chewbacca"
1987 RRC- "Chewy 2"
2008 RRS SC- "The Supersofa"

Past:
1959 SII 88"- "The Little Green Beastie" last seen in NY
1972 SIII 88"- "GreenHELL" now in NC
1988 90 "Eric the Half a Bee" half a truck, sold for parts
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  #34  
Old August 26th, 2014, 11:01 AM
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My guess is spring rate is too low and the springs are too flexy (possibly from age). Bushings really don't do much for a tippyness feeling, more a handling feeling. Shocks play a big role too in damping the back-and-forth which really give a feeling of tippyness, which is why I was asking if it just felt tippy or if you had actually landed on your side and it was truly tippy. If it just felt really tippy, then my leaning is springs and shocks. If it is really truly tippy then springs are much more suspect.
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  #35  
Old August 26th, 2014, 11:07 AM
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Springs do not change their rate with age. It is technically impossible. As these springs are used in many other trucks, I doubt that their rate is the problem.

He has already changed the shocks with no difference, so it is very doubtful that is the problem.
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  #36  
Old August 26th, 2014, 12:17 PM
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They can sag, which will make the truck ride lower and be more stable. The spring rate can't ever change.
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  #37  
Old August 26th, 2014, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
They can sag, which will make the truck ride lower and be more stable. The spring rate can't ever change.
Huh? seriously
Spring rate and load rate are 2 different things, wash the numbers thru a spring rate calculator and you'll find it does change. Compressed and static height of the spring is part of the equation...
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  #38  
Old August 26th, 2014, 01:36 PM
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My claim was that the spring rate was too low (the "possibly due to age" part you have said doesn't change, which gets no argument from me...)--but it doesn't change the statement that IMHO without knowing anything else, it would be too flexy a spring. This is assuming that it isn't lifted a ton and has decent rim offset. All things being equal, it is the ability to have the center of gravity affect the lean on the truck and potentially uncontrolled (or loosely controlled) sway. I am just saying that it isn't suspension bushings that do this---the only thing that moves on off camber parts are the springs and shocks being affected by the CG.
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  #39  
Old August 26th, 2014, 01:49 PM
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Wouldn't blown shocks have a similar effect? Without shock dampening the spring you would end up with very abrupt and oscillating articulation. Can be hard to identify unless you remove the shock, I'd start there
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  #40  
Old August 26th, 2014, 01:58 PM
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Had a friend who solved this problem by installing those load leveling air bags in the rear springs and only using about 5psi in them.
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