re-gearing (or pinion replacement) writeups? - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old March 21st, 2008, 09:46 PM
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Charles Galpin
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re-gearing (or pinion replacement) writeups?

Better late than never, but can anyone point me to some good writeups where someone have re-geared a rover diff? Specifically I am going to 4.11 gears (GBR) and a ARB locker so it's a complete rebuild (tomorrow). I'm a bit hazy on a few things, particularly setting the correct pinion height and preload.

I have read the ARB install writeup here, but in that they don't change out the pinion.

thanks
charles
p.s. This is for my '94 D90 with currently stock diffs.
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  #2  
Old March 21st, 2008, 09:49 PM
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Have someone with you who knows how to properly dial in the backlash. You blow that and its a short life for that ARB.
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  #3  
Old March 22nd, 2008, 10:34 AM
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X2,..it's not rocket science. But if you don't know what you're doing, you will purchasing everything all over again.
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  #4  
Old March 22nd, 2008, 12:55 PM
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Chris Davis
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x3,...I learned a lot when I watched mine being built up. I am very mechanically inclined and very glad I assisted (I brought beer) and not tried it on my own. It also took a hell of a lot less time watching someone that did it before...
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  #5  
Old March 22nd, 2008, 01:31 PM
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Charles Galpin
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ok, if any of you have set the pinion height before, please give me a ring at 703 728 9247

thanks
charles
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  #6  
Old March 22nd, 2008, 02:29 PM
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Setting pinion height is tough on a rover diff. I did it on a series diff, but I would not recommend it unless you have someone to check it.

Why not take it to a shop. Should be ~100 to have it done.
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  #7  
Old March 22nd, 2008, 10:23 PM
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Charles Galpin
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Sure I could take my truck to the shop for everything. What fun would that be? But it certainly wouldn't get done by any shop around here for $100 for one, let alone 2.

Anyway, I made very little progress with this, but do have a better understanding. With the tools I have, we were not really able to determine if we were measuring wrong, or my stock diff wasn't setup correctly, but the measurement we took of the stock diff before disassembly was 0.1" off (supposed to be 3" from the top of the pinion to the housing bearing cap flats). So I decided to shim mine to "normal" and proceed. Worst case it means I'll have to disassemble and change the shim if the pinion doesn't mesh with the crown gear properly. I did confirm that my new pinion and top bearing match the old in height.

But then ran into the pinion preload. The shims I have are 10,15,20/1000ths of an inch. If I use a 10/1000th shim, the pinion is very hard to turn by hand. So hard I didn't even try see what torque it took to turn - perhaps a mistake, but clearly felt too tight. With a 15/1000th shim, it feels tight, rolls smoothly, but takes little to no torque to turn it. So I am unsure what to do at this point. I don't know if I should try source a shim that somewhere inbetween, or call it good.

The bearing were lubed with 90W during these tests.

BTW, I am using this as my primary guide:

http://www.kamdiffs.com/landrover_4_1.htm

charles
p.s. thanks to the guys that helped today.
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  #8  
Old March 22nd, 2008, 10:57 PM
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Charles, sorry I could not help--there are a couple guys on the Solihull formums that know this info inside out--could probably help you if you posted there. I agree--there is no substitute for knowing it yourself.
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  #9  
Old March 23rd, 2008, 12:27 PM
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Even with measurements, you need to check where the teeth are meshing to make sure it correct. Prussian Blue or some such marking paste.
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  #10  
Old March 23rd, 2008, 05:28 PM
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Charles Galpin
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Thanks Chris, maybe I'll try them. I'll try Bill at GBR on monday first. No rush at this point, as long as I figure this out by next weekend

Tom, thats the plan (for the pinion height). If it's off I'll disassemble and adjust the shims as needed. The pinion preload is a separate issue though.

charles
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  #11  
Old March 27th, 2008, 05:40 AM
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Tom Rowe
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I have a manual that gives the preload. As I recall it's set the same way you set swivel pin preload, as resistance to turning. Unfortunately I can't lay my hands on the manual at the moment.
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  #12  
Old March 27th, 2008, 08:46 AM
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I've found that a good place to start on pinion height is to use the shims that came out with the old gear set. They have always run a great pattern for me.

jC
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  #13  
Old March 27th, 2008, 08:59 AM
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Charles Galpin
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I did speak to Bill at GBR and he confirmed my feelings on the pinion height. Try your best to get a good starting point (which I did by adding the shims necessary to bring it to normal height) then set it up and adjust as needed. Time consuming but otherwise not hard or Rocket science. Both he and Bobeck suggested grinding down the outside of an old race to make retrying the setup easy for future attempts before final assembly which I will definitely do if my first attempt is wrong (and likely will be).

Regarding pinion preload, the concept is clear, it's just the implementation I struggled with because I didn't have a inch pound torque wrench or a fish scale. I'm going to try pickup an inch pound torque wrench tonight. From talking to Bill it sounds like the proper preload is quite firm, so I'm expecting my smaller shim height is the one I want. It's also safer to go tighter than loose.

I'll report back over the weekend how round 2 goes
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  #14  
Old March 27th, 2008, 09:41 AM
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Jim C.
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You will want the inch-pound torque wrench to be the "dial indicator" type. I found mine at one of those tool/tent sales.
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  #15  
Old March 27th, 2008, 03:37 PM
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Charles, did you at least get your axle bolted back in?
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  #16  
Old March 27th, 2008, 03:42 PM
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Charles Galpin
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Yeah, we helped Tyler get it bolted back in. I Still haven't cleaned it all up or put the knuckles back on yet though.

charles
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  #17  
Old April 19th, 2008, 02:50 PM
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Ok, call me slow - heck call me anything you want. I took one of my diffs down to Uwharrie and a gentleman named Luke (i believe from rover automotive in Durham) showed me how to set them. I swear I wasn't doing anything different before, but with his guidance it turned out way way better than when I was doing it solo.

I was using a ground down bearing race to facilitate speedy shim changes while setting the pinion height, and didn't have a proper torque wrench then, so had to redo it all. This week I picked up a torsion bar style inch pound torque wrench, and today I did the final setup and I'm very happy with the end result. I set the pinion preload to 30 inch pounds since the next best reading I could get was 10, and I figured it was better to go over 5 than under 15. The final preload after setting the backlash is 35.

Let me know what you think of this gear pattern.

http://lhsw.com/gallery/d90Regearing

charles
p.s. I swear I'm not this bad of a photographer - my camera can't take good closeups.
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  #18  
Old April 19th, 2008, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgalpin
p.s. I swear I'm not this bad of a photographer - my camera can't take good closeups.
I used to suck at taking close up shots until I started to use the Macro setting. it is the little icon with the flower on it. hold the focus down and it will take a bit more time to focus on the object but you will get a much nicer shot. Macro is the sh*t
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  #19  
Old April 20th, 2008, 09:41 PM
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Charles Galpin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ini88
I used to suck at taking close up shots until I started to use the Macro setting. it is the little icon with the flower on it. hold the focus down and it will take a bit more time to focus on the object but you will get a much nicer shot. Macro is the sh*t
Thanks Daniel. That helped quite a lot.

charles
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