Radius arm lengths and axle position - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old June 28th, 2015, 12:20 PM
cgalpin's Avatar
cgalpin
Status: Offline
Charles Galpin
'94 D90 ST, '63 SeriesIIA
Site Team
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: South Riding, VA
Posts: 11,625
Registry
Radius arm lengths and axle position

Are radius arms from a 1993 LWB RRC the same length as from a 1993 NAS 110?

I am 99.999% sure the answer is yes, but here is why I ask - this axle position seems too far forward to me.

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_3029.jpg
Views:	240
Size:	99.8 KB
ID:	123815

Ignoring the funny looking spring which shouldn't be a factor here, does this axle position look right to you? I want to keep the truck at stock height or if anything lower, not higher.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by pendy
I'm here for the D's
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old June 28th, 2015, 12:49 PM
Ash's Avatar
Ash
Status: Online
Ash Heller
OM606 110 Frankenstein
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 665
That does look off. What's the frame side look like? How far in have you drawn the nut on the radius arms?

-Ash
__________________
Geared Restoration Co.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

352-572-3236

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old June 28th, 2015, 12:56 PM
cgalpin's Avatar
cgalpin
Status: Offline
Charles Galpin
'94 D90 ST, '63 SeriesIIA
Site Team
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: South Riding, VA
Posts: 11,625
Registry
I should have mentioned I have the nut tightened all the way to the ends of the threads. And if it matters, the axle is from the 1993 LWB RRC too.

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_3030.jpg
Views:	126
Size:	76.7 KB
ID:	123816

thanks.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by pendy
I'm here for the D's
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old June 28th, 2015, 01:08 PM
fishEH's Avatar
fishEH
Status: Online
Brett Fritzler
94, 95, 96 D1's
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lake Villa, IL
Posts: 1,113
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgalpin View Post
Ignoring the funny looking spring which shouldn't be a factor here, does this axle position look right to you? I want to keep the truck at stock height or if anything lower, not higher.
Actually the spring height will matter, and that spring/bag looks really short. The further the axle is pushed down(the taller the spring) the further the axle will swing to the back of the truck. Make sure the spring you're using for mock up is at least stock height or better.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old June 28th, 2015, 01:17 PM
sonoronos's Avatar
sonoronos
Status: Offline
Ed
None
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 5,531
Registry
What about your NAS?

I have the same problem with my truck. Same issue with the original arms, same issue but more pronounced with my RTE arms.

People have said it has to do with the change in wheelbase as the radius arms drop, but that reason doesn't hold water mathematically when I do the analysis.

My guess is that it's an idiosyncratic part of the rover design.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old June 28th, 2015, 01:22 PM
cgalpin's Avatar
cgalpin
Status: Offline
Charles Galpin
'94 D90 ST, '63 SeriesIIA
Site Team
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: South Riding, VA
Posts: 11,625
Registry
@Jeff I did look at the D90 and chose the position of the first picture based on the position of the arms and getting the spring pad level. This approximates what my D90 looks like sitting in the driveway. I have a 2" lift on the D90 so if anything this is high for the ride height I would think. I went and actually tok a reference measurement and found I was a 1/4" more compressed. I have addicted for that and here is what I have now

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_3031.jpg
Views:	149
Size:	104.7 KB
ID:	123818

No appreciable difference. Yes as you lower it, it draws the axle toward the rear, but the spring pad angle changes as it goes down as well and it doesn't help matters at some point - see below

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_3023.jpg
Views:	151
Size:	98.6 KB
ID:	123817

@Brett the springs can actually compress quite a bit more and extend a WHOLE LOT more than shown. I don't have any weight on the front end and the air springs require a minimum of 10psi to compress them to their minimum, so I can't readily do that right now, but one of the reasons I am worrying about this is that I do want to compress the suspension to it's minimum and determine my bump stop height requirements as well as see what the normal ride height will look like on the springs.

@Ed, it could be just poor build tolerances on the frame mounts of something but I dunno. My google foo is weak today and I can't find a nice side shot of an axle under a frame at stock ride height to compare to. Maybe with weight on the frame and air in the bags this difference will be a non issue, but I'd sure like to figure out if there i a problem sooner than later. For your problem, I think you need to buy some expensive shocks
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by pendy
I'm here for the D's
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old June 28th, 2015, 02:56 PM
Wilboro's Avatar
Wilboro
Status: Offline
William Ficner
1997 110 csw
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 688
Registry
Is it too far forward or rotated slightly forward?
I just installed a TD5 front axle and suspension under my new 110 chassis and the lower spring locators are tilted down towards the front like yours in the last pictures. I'm assuming it will correct once the engine is in....
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old June 28th, 2015, 03:38 PM
cgalpin's Avatar
cgalpin
Status: Offline
Charles Galpin
'94 D90 ST, '63 SeriesIIA
Site Team
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: South Riding, VA
Posts: 11,625
Registry
I feel like it's a bit of both, but if we accept that the first picture in post #7 is an accurate depiction of level ride height, the amount it's pushed forward seems to be a bigger issue than the slight forward tilt of the spring seat.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by pendy
I'm here for the D's
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old June 28th, 2015, 03:42 PM
Wilboro's Avatar
Wilboro
Status: Offline
William Ficner
1997 110 csw
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 688
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgalpin View Post
I feel like it's a bit of both, but if we accept that the first picture in post #7 is an accurate depiction of level ride height, the amount it's pushed forward seems to be a bigger issue than the slight forward tilt of the spring seat.

Hmm looking back at the other pic I see what your saying.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old June 28th, 2015, 08:57 PM
cgalpin's Avatar
cgalpin
Status: Offline
Charles Galpin
'94 D90 ST, '63 SeriesIIA
Site Team
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: South Riding, VA
Posts: 11,625
Registry
Any chance someone with a 110 could take some measurements for me? Both NAS or otherwise?

1. A measurement from the washer on the frame end of the radius arm to the center of the first axle bolt hole?
2. A measurement from the hole in the frame where the radius arm attaches to an imaginary vertical line that runs down the center of the spring perch

Thanks
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by pendy
I'm here for the D's
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old June 28th, 2015, 09:23 PM
lordhelemt's Avatar
lordhelemt
Status: Offline
Paul
1995 D90 #2620 & NAS 110
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 1,113
I can do it tomorrow after work.
__________________
RIP 1994 D90 #999 (engine fire 2002). We'll miss you.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old June 28th, 2015, 10:41 PM
Jpayne's Avatar
Jpayne
Status: Offline
Jeff Payne
'83 110 3 Door
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 1,393
Registry
1. A measurement from the washer on the frame end of the radius arm to the center of the first axle bolt hole?

28 3/8"

2. A measurement from the hole in the frame where the radius arm attaches to an imaginary vertical line that runs down the center of the spring perch

32 3/8"
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old June 29th, 2015, 09:48 PM
cgalpin's Avatar
cgalpin
Status: Offline
Charles Galpin
'94 D90 ST, '63 SeriesIIA
Site Team
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: South Riding, VA
Posts: 11,625
Registry
Thanks Jeff!

Ok this is interesting. Mine are the basically same

1. A measurement from the washer on the frame end of the radius arm to the center of the first axle bolt hole?

28 3/8"

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_3039.jpg
Views:	92
Size:	81.1 KB
ID:	123932 Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_3038.jpg
Views:	96
Size:	65.3 KB
ID:	123933



2. A measurement from the hole in the frame where the radius arm attaches to an imaginary vertical line that runs down the center of the spring perch

32"

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_3041.jpg
Views:	72
Size:	57.4 KB
ID:	123934 Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_3040.jpg
Views:	102
Size:	69.0 KB
ID:	123935

I'm thinking 3/8" is probably the margin of error in our measurements there for the center of the spring perch.

So that's not it. And I assume your axle lines up nicely?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by pendy
I'm here for the D's
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old June 29th, 2015, 10:42 PM
Jpayne's Avatar
Jpayne
Status: Offline
Jeff Payne
'83 110 3 Door
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 1,393
Registry
For #2 I measured to the nut that holds the bottom of the shock and got 32" then added about half the thickness of the nut for a total of ~32 3/8.

As far as I can tell my axle looks pretty well situated. It would have been nice to find a discrepancy there so you could work towards a solution.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old June 29th, 2015, 10:46 PM
o2batsea's Avatar
o2batsea
Status: Online
Bill Adams
66 109 sw 94 lwb
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: kensington md
Posts: 6,502
Registry
I wouldn't worry about any of this until you have it sitting fully laden. The spring will fold in on itself quite a lot.
Part of it is the spring plungers or pistons or whatever you want to call them are a bit different than the OE.
__________________
Bill Adams

1966 109 5 door wagon 300Tdi "spermaceti fueled"
1994 RRC LeWiB "ruining the air behind me"
1968 2A 88

All my troubles are Rover
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old July 1st, 2015, 10:52 PM
cgalpin's Avatar
cgalpin
Status: Offline
Charles Galpin
'94 D90 ST, '63 SeriesIIA
Site Team
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: South Riding, VA
Posts: 11,625
Registry
Roger. Thanks for the feedback.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by pendy
I'm here for the D's
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old July 28th, 2015, 04:31 AM
sonoronos's Avatar
sonoronos
Status: Offline
Ed
None
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 5,531
Registry
Revisiting this thread, it occurred to me that a bolt-on spring perch spacer could be fabricated to correct the angle and offset. It could be made very strong yet thin enough to not contribute to ride height nor look too out of place? It does go against the "stock look" philosophy, unfortunately. Just an idea...
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old July 28th, 2015, 09:54 AM
fishEH's Avatar
fishEH
Status: Online
Brett Fritzler
94, 95, 96 D1's
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lake Villa, IL
Posts: 1,113
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
Revisiting this thread, it occurred to me that a bolt-on spring perch spacer could be fabricated to correct the angle and offset. It could be made very strong yet thin enough to not contribute to ride height nor look too out of place? It does go against the "stock look" philosophy, unfortunately. Just an idea...
That could work but would add lift to the front end. You'd have to raise the perch up over the axle mount, then you could move it back.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old July 28th, 2015, 08:51 PM
cgalpin's Avatar
cgalpin
Status: Offline
Charles Galpin
'94 D90 ST, '63 SeriesIIA
Site Team
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: South Riding, VA
Posts: 11,625
Registry
Once I have some weight on it I'll consider my options, and this would certainly be in the cards. I think if just the bottom was angled a bit, and the top retained it would be fine too. I'm hoping it will sort itself out though
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by pendy
I'm here for the D's
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions

Tags
axle

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
1984 defender 90 door repair lengths Attilathescott Wanted 4 June 3rd, 2015 01:03 AM
Storage Box Lengths Troys Misc. Chit-Chat 118 July 20th, 2012 07:15 AM
Radius arm and trailing arm nut size dave_lucas Defender Technical Discussions 3 February 25th, 2010 04:44 PM
Upgrading Battery Cables - Lengths? priest944 Defender Technical Discussions 0 January 7th, 2009 06:59 PM
SG and Hinged and pinned castor corrected radius arm Shane@EVS For Sale - Parts 5 March 21st, 2006 11:20 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:18 PM.


Copyright