R380 in an NAS 97 D90 Conversion? - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old May 7th, 2008, 12:47 PM
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Gary
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R380 in an NAS 97 D90 Conversion?

Has anyone ever heard of this being done? I searched and did not see anything on this particular subject.

Aside from the obvious cost, console differences and miscellaneous bits required to do this, is there anything specific to the NAS 97 D that would make this an absurdly impractical swap?

Specifically, I am wondering about:

1. Any interface issues with a 4.0 GEMS vs 3.9 14-CUX ?
2. ECU mapping ?
3. Wiring?
4. 97 AC issues?
5. Bulkhead / Transmission / Floor differences ? (any cutting required?)
6. Frame transmission mount differences?
7. Anything else you can think of?

Thanks.
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  #2  
Old May 7th, 2008, 01:16 PM
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Johnathan Tisdale
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Tyler Wirken did this on his LE, he may have posted some info here.
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  #3  
Old May 7th, 2008, 02:04 PM
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Just curious, why would you want too? My personal opinion is that the auto is better off-road, or at least on the rocks.
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  #4  
Old May 7th, 2008, 05:42 PM
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your bias. Why not just trade in on a 95 or 94?
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  #5  
Old May 7th, 2008, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woldd90
Just curious, why would you want too? My personal opinion is that the auto is better off-road, or at least on the rocks.
Fair question. A bit more power, and maybe a skosh better mileage - oh, and a spare R380 in the garage taunting me to do it....
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  #6  
Old May 7th, 2008, 08:07 PM
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Hey Garth PM me and I can see what I remember about it. It was pretty straight forward to be honest. No tunnel issues, the carpet under the auto console is actually already trimmed out for the manual, I had to rewire the truck to make it think it was in park, and there is one sensor on the flywheel that had to me modified. But I can help you with the details if i can remember.

Reason I did it was I burned up the auto in Moab and it was a great excuse to do the conversion as I always wanted a 5 speed in that truck.

Where I come from we do alot of trail driving sometimes in pretty nasty wet conditions and I missed the downhill control of a manual. Plus I just enjoy driving it more. I seem to be able to get more performance out of it as I can push more out of each gear. I could be imagining this, but it just feels better.

Crawling in a manual is pretty fun anyway. More of a challenge but certainly do able.

Tyler
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  #7  
Old May 7th, 2008, 08:59 PM
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its the only way to have a Defender IMO.
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  #8  
Old May 7th, 2008, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rover4x4
its the only way to have a Defender IMO.
you're bias!

Sound interesting. I think manuals are more fun to drive, autos are better for traffic, girlfriends/wives.
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  #9  
Old May 7th, 2008, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GYM
Has anyone ever heard of this being done? I searched and did not see anything on this particular subject.

Aside from the obvious cost, console differences and miscellaneous bits required to do this, is there anything specific to the NAS 97 D that would make this an absurdly impractical swap?

Specifically, I am wondering about:

1. Any interface issues with a 4.0 GEMS vs 3.9 14-CUX ?
2. ECU mapping ?
3. Wiring?
4. 97 AC issues?
5. Bulkhead / Transmission / Floor differences ? (any cutting required?)
6. Frame transmission mount differences?
7. Anything else you can think of?

Thanks.
The Disco come with 5-spd and the same engine as the '97 D90, I don't see why this would not be possible.
I am partial to 5-spd, but then... I don't like rocks too much and like to push the pedals and move the stick!
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  #10  
Old May 7th, 2008, 10:02 PM
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Don't get me wrong, I too like a manual transmission, but just not off-road. Who would ever want an automatic sports car? Like an Automatic Ferrari?
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  #11  
Old May 7th, 2008, 10:05 PM
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GYM, I am in the process of going the other way on my '94. Putting an auto in it and removing a good condition R380 (~30k miles on it). Contact me if you are interested in any of the parts I am removing. I might be able to some of your pieces if you decide to do it.

Gary

Quote:
Originally Posted by GYM
Has anyone ever heard of this being done? I searched and did not see anything on this particular subject.

Aside from the obvious cost, console differences and miscellaneous bits required to do this, is there anything specific to the NAS 97 D that would make this an absurdly impractical swap?

Specifically, I am wondering about:

1. Any interface issues with a 4.0 GEMS vs 3.9 14-CUX ?
2. ECU mapping ?
3. Wiring?
4. 97 AC issues?
5. Bulkhead / Transmission / Floor differences ? (any cutting required?)
6. Frame transmission mount differences?
7. Anything else you can think of?

Thanks.
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  #12  
Old May 7th, 2008, 10:16 PM
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Michael Steil
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I will vouch for Gary's R380. I sold him the truck and the tranny was more than strong. I wanted it to put in my 110 to go back to manual but the wife shot it down. Very strong and smooth trans.
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  #13  
Old May 7th, 2008, 10:55 PM
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Garth I would totally take Gary up on the offer. That is what I did. I did the swap with a guy in town that had a 94 90. That way we just swapped parts. Much easier. I actually ended doing most of the work on both trucks.

Going from a manual to an auto was much harder. If you wanted to retain all the safety features you had to really dive into the wiring and get creative on the manual to make it act like an auto. For example it will not start unless it is in park or neutral, can not shift to low range unless in park or neutral etc.........

But yeah just swap parts flywheels, and all.

Pretty interesting project though doing both sides.
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  #14  
Old May 8th, 2008, 07:00 PM
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Thanks for the feedback, guys. I appreciate it.
Tyler, I will contact you.

Garth
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  #15  
Old May 9th, 2008, 12:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woldd90
Just curious, why would you want too? My personal opinion is that the auto is better off-road, or at least on the rocks.
I wheel some of the toughest rock trails just about anywhere, and I love the stick. It's not nearly as easy, but the challenge of it, true gear selection, and controled decents are sweet. A perfect example was a waterfall in JV where you have to have big tire spin in order to go up the face. You can only back up about 3 feet once you get vertical to gain momentum. I was the only one in the group to make it. Not because I had the best truck, but because I was the only one with a manual. I was able to put it in third, redline the engine, and drop it. The auto guys could not get the torque converters to hook up fast enough to make it.

Of course, watching better trucks than you have get stiemied is always a good time.

Long winded, but the issue is certainly not black and white.
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  #16  
Old May 9th, 2008, 06:24 AM
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you'll need a flywheel out of something with GEMS. Probably a Disco will work. Last time I did this I used (I think) the flywheel from a Euro spec Range Rover P38 manual.
Technically speaking there are some other things that should be done with the management auto vs. manual, but I'd not worry too much about it. It's worse going the other way (converting to auto).
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  #17  
Old May 9th, 2008, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckon37s
I wheel some of the toughest rock trails just about anywhere, and I love the stick. It's not nearly as easy, but the challenge of it, true gear selection, and controled decents are sweet. A perfect example was a waterfall in JV where you have to have big tire spin in order to go up the face. You can only back up about 3 feet once you get vertical to gain momentum. I was the only one in the group to make it. Not because I had the best truck, but because I was the only one with a manual. I was able to put it in third, redline the engine, and drop it. The auto guys could not get the torque converters to hook up fast enough to make it.

Of course, watching better trucks than you have get stiemied is always a good time.

Long winded, but the issue is certainly not black and white.
I will give you that... For those of us that know how to drive, I agree. But, I have seen a ton of guys try and navigate big V ditches, trenches and steep inclines that can't manage 3 pedels, the stick and the steering wheel.
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  #18  
Old May 9th, 2008, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woldd90
I will give you that... For those of us that know how to drive, I agree. But, I have seen a ton of guys try and navigate big V ditches, trenches and steep inclines that can't manage 3 pedels, the stick and the steering wheel.
Truth! But there are trail tampons with autos too. Just opinion, there is no right and wrong.
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  #19  
Old November 5th, 2008, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonLand
The Disco come with 5-spd and the same engine as the '97 D90, I don't see why this would not be possible.
I am partial to 5-spd, but then... I don't like rocks too much and like to push the pedals and move the stick!
I'm a Defender Newb...
From the above comment, would it be fairly straight forward to swap a disco engine and 5-spd tranny into a '97 D-90? Would the drive shafts need to be different lengths? Engine swaps don't scare me too much (but they should...). I just swapped a diesel / 5-speed into a gasser/auto LandCruiser.
Thanks.
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  #20  
Old November 5th, 2008, 07:21 PM
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Rear driveshaft needs in disco is longer than d90 (and uses a rotary coupler). Need to use a d90 driveshaft.
You'd likely keep the same transfer-case (high ratio is higher in a disco). Changing auto to 5 speed is interesting since folks tend to go the other way. I'd assume that the ECU would have to be swapped as well?
That's more the electronic part of it/details that worries me. The speedo of the D90 is different than the disco speedo, so I'd assume you'd have to make sure you get the right sender (again, might just want to keep the T/C from the D90?).

Anyway, no real life experience, so I'll let others that did it give you some hints.
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