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  #1  
Old December 29th, 2006, 01:22 PM
dimcon
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Chris Goldie
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R380 Diesel

I just set the R380 tranny and was curious as to why the rear driveshaft is to long. I put the new tranny in the same spot as the LT77 that came out, slide everything up to its furthist point and still need about another inch to hook the shaft up. Is this normal or did I screw up some where.
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  #2  
Old December 29th, 2006, 01:38 PM
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Dave Ashcroft
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what engine ?

what bellhousing ?

do you have the R 380 serial number ?

Dave
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  #3  
Old December 29th, 2006, 01:43 PM
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Chris Goldie
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I found # of t-case 22d 47077.

Its is a R380 that was mated to a 200 tdi. I'm putting this in place of the 3.9/LT77 in a 94 90. I figured I would set the tranny, hang the motor and adjust the motor mounts where they needed to be.
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  #4  
Old December 29th, 2006, 01:47 PM
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Dave Ashcroft
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Hi,


the 22D number from the transfer case just says it's a 1.410 ratio,

the serial number on the R 380 is dot punched on the oval flat below the oil filler level plug on the right hand side of the main casing,

the 200 TDi defender retrofit R 380 is a type 44A,

please conform this number and the bellhousing you are using,
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  #5  
Old December 29th, 2006, 02:24 PM
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Chris Goldie
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Ok got it. 51A02270150E
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  #6  
Old December 29th, 2006, 02:37 PM
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Robert Dassler
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I think a 51A, suffix E is an LT77 from a NA 2.5 Diesel, probably ex-military. Steel brackets that bolt to the transmission & t-box that the rubber mounts then bolt to. Are you using the original brackets from the car or are you using some that came with the gearboxes? If so, that may be your problem. The original mounts for the v8 application will locate the transmission about 1.5" forward. I have both styles of mount here at the shop to compare. Can you take a picture of the mounting brackets you are using?
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  #7  
Old December 29th, 2006, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dimcon
Ok got it. 51A02270150E
that's a 4 Cyl Military LT77, approx mid 1980's,

no good for a V8, much weaker than the later LT77 you have taken out, also you would need an adapter ring ring to fit it to the V8,
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Old December 29th, 2006, 02:47 PM
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Well thats good to know. I'm not using it with the V8, I putting it in with the 200 Tdi. But another question is, could I simply remove the bellhousing from this one and put it on the other one I took out, in case I need a spare? And I guess it would be easier to shorten the drive shaft by a couple of inches then move the tranny.
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  #9  
Old December 29th, 2006, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dimcon
Well thats good to know. I'm not using it with the V8, I putting it in with the 200 Tdi. But another question is, could I simply remove the bellhousing from this one and put it on the other one I took out, in case I need a spare? And I guess it would be easier to shorten the drive shaft by a couple of inches then move the tranny.
it will fit a 200 but not really strong enough long term,

ref the V8 77, it will need at leat 2 maybe 3 mods, this will be stronger than the 51E if it was working OK,

1) fit the 4cyl bellhousing
2) strip and fit a FTC1428 short pinion shaft
3) the V8 box may or may not have the clutch release bearing slider tube fitted to the nose cone, if not you will need to fit a later suffix G or H one, you cannot use the 51E one,
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  #10  
Old December 29th, 2006, 03:31 PM
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If you use the brackets off of the original LT77, the new transmission will end up where the old one was and the driveshaft should fit. Where the fan ends up in relation to the radiator is a bigger concern. I would be inclined to use the 200Tdi mounts to allow for correct positioning of the engine and correct function of the fan shroud and modify the driveshafts to fit. I, too, would have reservations about putting a 51A box behind a 200Tdi. It will physically fit but the countershaft bearings are very small and prone to destruction. Most of the 51A boxes that I get in as cores for rebuild go into the dumpster as the cases are usually wrecked from spun or destroyed countershaft bearings. Internally, a V8 LT77 and a 200TDI LT77 are the same except for the differences noted by Mr. Ashcroft. It is possible to rebuild your original LT77 to 200TDi specs.
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Old December 29th, 2006, 09:44 PM
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I did figure out using the brackets from the V8 transmission, so I got that worked fine. I plan on setting the engine and will be sure to check the fan relation and adjust if needed. As far as the transmission what kind of money are we talking to take my V8 77 and rebuilding to Tdi specs. I'll run with the 51a box for now just to get finished and rolling, but may as well have the right transmission ready to go. But to be sure, are the dimensions the same for both the same. If I go ahead and set everything up using the 51a box I won't have to change anything later if I use the V8 box.


I went back and looked at the post I bought the engine and tranny from and just assumed the tranny was a R380, so my mistake.
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  #12  
Old December 30th, 2006, 11:29 AM
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Yes, If you set it up for the 51A, the other will swap in after rebuilding it to 200Tdi specs. The external case dimensions are the same. I have recently rebuilt a couple of V8 LT77s to 200 Tdi spec for customers doing the same conversion that you are. Cost is dependent on the condition of the donor V8 LT77 transmission, but if you have a decent one to start with, it is reasonable. You can call me at the shop if you'd like to discuss this in more detail.
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  #13  
Old January 2nd, 2007, 10:28 AM
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A 200Tdi has different length driveshafts than a V8 or 300Tdi as it sits much farther back and, as a result, has a shorter bellhousing.

I would try to use the stock 200Tdi crap personally and not put in some weird combo to make the V8 crap fit.
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  #14  
Old January 2nd, 2007, 12:45 PM
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Can you take a V8 r380 and swap the bellhousing from a diesel LT77?

What else?

mainshaft?
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  #15  
Old January 2nd, 2007, 02:02 PM
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Certainly at least the input shaft. David Ashcroft once explained all this to me. You can even make a south african spec R380 that will bolt to a BMW six cylinder (ie a 2.8i, but I don't see why it would not fit with a 3.0, 3.3 M3 engine or the new 335i engine--tasty) by using the bellhousing off of a manual diesel P38a.
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Old January 2nd, 2007, 02:20 PM
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I do not think the input pinion for an LT77 will fit in an R380...the gears are very close, but the synchro size is very different. The R380 case is approximately 1" longer than the LT77. The bellhousing for an LT77 will physically bolt to an R380...but the depth will probably be wrong in most applications.
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  #17  
Old January 2nd, 2007, 02:24 PM
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What you really need is a "short shaft" R380 found behind military 2.5 N/A post 1994ish and often fitted as a replacement.
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