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  #1  
Old July 17th, 2011, 05:24 PM
soturi
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Matthew
1984 300tdi
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questions!

well - just got a "new" D90. '84 300 tdi. here's some photos: http://s1189.photobucket.com/albums/z434/s0turi/D90/

i'm a complete n00b with the defenders, so i figured i might put up a bunch of observations/questions and see what sort of sweet learning i can get from y'all.

there's no plug in the check hole on the bottom of the clutch housing. brought it up when i first scoped the truck out, and found it was a piece commonly missing from trucks in the shop i was at. seemed normal enough... picked up the truck yesterday, been driving it a bit, got under it today - and i found metal shavings in the threads. don't know if you can see any in the picture below, but they're still in there. truck's probably not moving till i figure out what the shavings are... thoughts?


looks like someone wedged a bracket or something into a transmission mount. nothing's attached to it any more, though. ideas?


in the pic below you can see the now unused cross-member mounting point on the transmission, and the cross-member itself. is that a standard d90 cross-member?


here's the only identifying feature i could find on the transmission. anybody know what it is?


and here's the t-case. also don't know what that is...


rear axle has disc brake conversion. took a picture of the calipers, in case anyone can ID them and perhaps tell me what sort of conversion has taken place:


also, not leaf-sprung back there. is this normal?


here's the injection pump. don't know if you can tell from the picture alone, but the upper limiting screw can't even touch the little rotating plate that would normally allow it to set the upper rev limit. also, i get some white smoke at start-up and some black smoke while driving. can anyone notice anything visibly wrong w/ the IP?


some oil splatter on the hood:


but the head doesn't seem that bad:


should i be worried about that splatter?

after my first fill, i did a mileage check: 29 miles on 2.1 gallons. not quite what i thought the 300tdi was capable of (by about half, actually). checked the air filter, and it looked ok, but i noticed the oil in the picture below. would y'all call it a save bet that my horrible mileage and black smoke is due to a turbo that's in its death throes?


last but not least, i found this little dangly bit hiding between the frame rail and turbo pipe. any ideas as to its function?


thanks for any answers/thoughts/impressions. looking forward to having fun rovering about, but starting to feel like i may have just paid a lot of money for something that i probably shouldn't be driving without putting MORE money into.

i'm leaving on a 3-week training event early tomorrow morning, so any responses posted after tonight i won't get until the second week of august. thanks again in advance, and i'll respond ASAP when i get back!

cheers!
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  #2  
Old July 17th, 2011, 07:10 PM
John_Karlsson
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John Karlsson
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The hole in the bottom of the clutch housing should be left open. The "fording plug" should be installed only when you expect to drive in deep water or mud.
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  #3  
Old July 17th, 2011, 07:26 PM
punter
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Scott
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Disco calipers are what I've got for my Disc Brake Conversion... I didn't hold your picture up to them to compare, but they look similar enough. If you look on the casting there is probably a part number.

...might be something like STC1905

Once you have the part number, you can cross reference it.

-Scott
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  #4  
Old July 17th, 2011, 09:25 PM
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Can't add much ... But defenders are coil sprung so you can check that one off the list!
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  #5  
Old July 18th, 2011, 08:45 AM
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Mike
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Transmission, Where is the reverse? to the right = R380, to the left + Lt277
The transmission cross member is not a 300 Tdi R380 Crossmember, check above
Rear Disc, looks like the bracket from a stock set up, as mentioned look for a number on the caliper.
I would clean everything up in the engine bay and then see where, if any, you are getting leaks.
I get about 18-23 mpg with my truck. Do a longer highway cycle and then check. If you gas mileage is not up to par it could be a bunch of things. You can pull your injectors and have them re-built. If that doesn't do it then you could check the timing and or adjust it. When was the timing belt replaced? If it is an unknown..replace it. Do you have oil in the air intake hoses? Before the turbo and or in the innercooler? You will have to start with the easy and work your way around until you find out what is going on. May be a few things. Black puff of smoke at start up is usual. White smoke is not. Black smoke under load, a slight amount, is normal. A lot of black smoke is not.
Wires by the Turbo, looks like a relay but have no idea. Trace the wires and see where they go.
The air filter is not in the factory 300 Tdi location. The 300's pull fresh air from the right side fender side vent. If the truck was a conversion then they probably did not have the parts to route it that way. The cooler air you get the better the motor will run. Where is the air intake getting it from? With the filter standing up you may risk getting water into the system unless it has some way to get rid of it.
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  #6  
Old July 18th, 2011, 10:08 AM
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Michael White
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For the bracket on the transmission mount, mine has the same thing, although mine is welded on. I'm guessing it's to keep the exhaust from hitting the transmission mount, or maybe an exhaust bracket, but I don't know either.

From the photos, your transmission is an LT77.

Your transfer case is an LT230T, 1.222 ratio if no one has done a gear swap.

The 300Tdi shouldn't have many oil leaks. You'll need to clean up and track them down. All of the leaks on mine were simple things (leaking hoses, leaking pressure sending unit, etc...).

If you're seeing black smoke and bad mileage, it could be your timing. If you have a setup like mine, you won't be able to set the timing by following the service manual, as you can't get to the timing slot through the clutch housing. There's a trick involving a couple of bolts and a level that seems to work pretty well. Let me know if you need that.

I don't know what that dangley thing is.
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  #7  
Old July 18th, 2011, 10:18 AM
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Check while the engine is running to make sure fuel isn't leaking from the spill hoses.
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  #8  
Old August 6th, 2011, 10:07 AM
soturi
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Matthew
1984 300tdi
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thanks for the help, everyone!

John - fording plug, eh? sounds like a PITA to me. what happens if you just leave one in permanently?

michael - thanks for the positive IDs. will check out the timing procedures shortly here.

nobody has thoughts on the shavings coming from the clutch housing fording hole? you can actually kinda see a few of them up in the hole in the picture above. this is the only really worrisome thing for me. is it normal with clutch wear on these things, or indicative of problems?
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  #9  
Old August 6th, 2011, 02:42 PM
John_Karlsson
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John Karlsson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soturi View Post
thanks for the help, everyone!

John - fording plug, eh? sounds like a PITA to me. what happens if you just leave one in permanently?
I think I would rather risk fording without the plug than leave it in and risk accumulation of oily crud.
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  #10  
Old August 6th, 2011, 03:58 PM
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kevin
1994 D90 300tdi #730, SIII 88
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You might want to clean up that dangling relay or fuse holder as the green wire is probably hot.
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  #11  
Old August 6th, 2011, 06:44 PM
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Jamie Austin
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That round crossmember is the one fitted with the LT77 gearbox (Which looks like yours still has... is reverse to the left of 1st?) The proper 300Tdi/R380 crossmember is square, with the gearbox sitting on it.

The hole in the bottom of the flywheel housing is the drain bung/wading plug. usually leave it out unless you're going wading... if/when the crank rear seal, or gearbox input seal leaks, then the oil can seep out. this way 1) you'll see it's leaking and can fix it, 2) it won't fill the clutch housing up with oil, and bugger your clutch.

that dangling thing looks dangerous! could be a spotlight relay? turbo timer thing? either way, i'd check its wiring and tidy it up ASAP.

Splatter on the underside of the hood could mean you have blow-by... worn piston rings allowing pressure to blow the oil back up into the top of the engine, which then leaks out... worst case scenario granted!

Wedge in the transmission rubber... strange... shouldn't be there!

metal shavings in the wading plug... someone hamfisted fitting the bung in previously? the bungs are steel, and the housing is soft aluminium.. easy to cross thread and tear it out.
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  #12  
Old August 6th, 2011, 11:31 PM
soturi
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Matthew
1984 300tdi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Karlsson View Post
I think I would rather risk fording without the plug than leave it in and risk accumulation of oily crud.
...and metal filings. haha

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevkon View Post
You might want to clean up that dangling relay or fuse holder as the green wire is probably hot.
will do, thanks for the heads up. this is a general theme here, green = hot?


Quote:
Originally Posted by diesel_jim View Post
That round crossmember is the one fitted with the LT77 gearbox (Which looks like yours still has... is reverse to the left of 1st?)

...

metal shavings in the wading plug... someone hamfisted fitting the bung in previously? the bungs are steel, and the housing is soft aluminium.. easy to cross thread and tear it out.
reverse is to the left, michael got the PID earlier =) sounds like the r380 is the "standard" 300tdi mate though, yes? is one preferable to the other, standards notwithstanding?

also, the threads look perfectly fine in the wading plug, i don't think that's what it is. engaging a gear is clunky sounding, but i can't tell if it's in the clutch or the tranny from the cab. clunky is normal? i think i'm going to just have to take the tranny off to find the source of the shavings.

i took her for a two hour ride this evening. few new shavings collecting in the wading plug hole. the driver's side hub joint (the big steel ball) seems to have a slow oil (grease?) weep. most of the crap under there does, actually - lots of tidying up in my future.

'nuther question: what's the best resource for a timing belt how-to? i can probably muscle my way through the manual alone, but i find "hey i did this" directions to be valuable augmentations to the manuals.

thanks again for the help, everybody.
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  #13  
Old August 10th, 2011, 10:07 AM
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michael67
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Michael White
110 Tdi
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Matthew,

For the timing belt, Google is your friend. I referenced this page when I replaced my timing belt, as well as the service manual (available everywhere):

http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=22319

One important item the poster seemed to miss was the alignment of the crankshaft gears. This is done using a pin that threads into the hole on the bottom of the bell housing (the one you're seeing metal shavings in). Since yours is like mine (300 Tdi + LT77), it's likely you'll run into the same problem I did: you can't see the timing mark through the hole in the bottom of the bell housing. After I replaced my timing belt, the timing was way off (choking on diesel fumes, horrible smoke when cold, etc...). So here's what I did to get the timing fairly close (not my idea originally - I can't find the original site that described this):

- Do the timing belt change on a level (left to right) surface.

- Make sure you have a tight fit drill bit holding the fuel pump gear. I think it's 3/8".

- Put the belt on the best you can, making sure you don't move the crank gear or the cam gear (two center gears). You can hold the crank gear in place using an air fitting through the hole in the bell housing. You'll likely have to loosen the three bolts on the gear on the fuel pump to put on the timing belt - that's fine, you'll need to do that anyway. Tension appropriately. Remove anything you used to keep the crank gear in place.

- Take two long bolts from your crank pulley puller and put them back into the crank pulley. Each bolt should be 90 degrees from the woodruff key slot.

- Slide the crank pulley back on, and put the washer & nut on to allow you to move the crank.

- Put a level across the two bolts sticking out of the crank pulley.

- If you haven't already done this, loosen the three bolts on the fuel pump gear.

- Move the crank pulley until the level indicates it is level.

- If there's any slop in the fuel pump gear around the drill bit, center around the slop. Tighten the bolts on the fuel pump gear.

- Remove the drill bit and level, then rotate everything at least once. Stop at TDC again.

- Double check tension (per service manual) and timing (using the level and drill bit). You should be good to go.

Let me know if you run into any problems.
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  #14  
Old August 12th, 2011, 09:15 AM
soturi
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Matthew
1984 300tdi
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thanks, michael! i've actually done some decent googling since starting this thread and found a few helpful link re: timing belt. i definitely appreciate the first-hand 300tdi/lt77 input.

also, i noticed theres a green tabbed gasket on my timing belt cover, but no little yellow square that i can see. is there an easy way to tell for sure if the pully alignment fix has been executed, other than "the belt isn't absolutely chewed up"?
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  #15  
Old August 12th, 2011, 11:22 AM
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Mike Hammond
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The fact that the metal plug on top of the injector pump is missing leads me to suspect that someone has "tuned" the pump for "more power" or more black smoke and less mpg. I'd google 300tdi injection pumps and see if you can return the pump to a more standard setting.
Fuel consumption seems a little on the low side, my 200tdi 110 regularly betters 30 mpg but they're imperial gallons ( 4.546 ltrs = 1 imp gallon, 3.785 litres to a US gallon) more like 25mpg on US gallons.
Oil in the intake is normal, the turbo isn't going to die any time soon. I think cleaning the oil out of the intercooler is a service task anyway but as I'm a 1/3 of the world away from home at the moment I can't check.
The rear axle is probably off of a discovery (you can't convert an '84 rear axle to disc at all easily) as is the transfer box, both are useful upgrades. cross member is standard. Is the transfer box mounted by way of two separate mounting plates bolted to the chassis rails? ( standard for the year)
LT77 bell housings can be made to fit a 300 tdi relatively easily, one stud hole is different I think.
Spirit level on the crank...hmmm.... The truck would need to be absolutely level & on level ground for that to work. I've never had any trouble fitting or timing the belt without locking the fly wheel, just get everything lined up.
Leave the plug out except for really deep muddy wading. There should be one on the timing belt housing too and that should be left out but I tend to put that in for all deep wading, but you don't want any oil build up in there at all causing a timing belt failure due to oil contamination.

It looks as though the air filter is standard 1984 petrol or diesel whatever engine was originally in there and the air intake wasn't converted. But as it's a 300 tdi on an LT77 bell housing the engine wouldn't be far enough forward to allow this anyway.

You seem to have a nice straight Land Rover, give it a good pressure wash and see what you can see regards the oil leaks.

Have fun
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Old August 13th, 2011, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeslandrover View Post
Spirit level on the crank...hmmm.... The truck would need to be absolutely level & on level ground for that to work. I've never had any trouble fitting or timing the belt without locking the fly wheel, just get everything lined up.
Yeah, that was my screw-up. I followed the 300Tdi service manual, which calls for loosening the injection pump. If someone did the same to his, this is the best solution I've heard of (love to hear of another....).
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Old August 14th, 2011, 01:14 AM
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Andrew
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How are the hoses on the air cleaner fitted up? Photos would be good, from the little bit that I can see it sort of looks like the filter might be set up backwards with the intake and outlet reversed. The inlet is the side port and the outlet is the top one (though in this case it is upside down so the bottom one). Does the side port got to the turbo or to fresh air?
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Old August 14th, 2011, 01:32 PM
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Mike Hammond
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I was looking at that too, pretty certain that the filter housing is upside down
Air should go in through the side opening through the filter and out the top to the turbo.
There should be a rubber valve to let water out the bottom of the filter housing from what I remember.
I fitted a 200tdi into a similar base vehicle, it was down on power, my initial thought was "it's drawing hot air from the engine bay, get air from outside the engine bay". I fitted all the ducting for a 200tdi, made no appreciable difference. Problem turned out to be a split rubber diaphragm in the injection pump = no extra fuel when the turbo was on boost.
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Old August 14th, 2011, 08:11 PM
soturi
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got the engine bay pressure washed today, and as much of the tranny/t'case as i could with the long-@$$ wand that came with the rental unit - which, actually, was most of both. i can actually see what's going on in there now. and the belt stopped squealing when i first turn it on, which was a pleasant surprise. i anticipated *more* squealing, as the crank pulley accumulated a bit of surface rust during the blasting.

as for turbo oil being normal... seems fishy. all my research into my cummins and my wife's VW tdi indicated that the only thing that puts oil into intake lines or intercoolers is failed turbo seals. i suppose this isn't really an impending explosion, as it means the turbo IS getting oil, and is only draining it improperly, but... still, something that will need correction sooner rather than later, i should think. an intercooler with oil pooled in the bottom is performing sub-optimally, if nothing else.

headdamage - good call, man. i had no idea. i'll take a look at it asap, and take some pictures of it for confirmation before i turn it around and reroute it.

also, i'll take a peek at the IP diaphragm, Mike. that's the first thing i'll see when i pop the top off the VE, yes?
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Old August 14th, 2011, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soturi View Post
also, i'll take a peek at the IP diaphragm, Mike. that's the first thing i'll see when i pop the top off the VE, yes?
Yes, that's right.
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