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  #1  
Old March 6th, 2014, 07:48 AM
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Question about new engine

Currently I have a 3.5 in my 110 and I have a available to me a 4.6L Callaway range rover (i have access to the whole car, so whatever I need it is there) and was wondering how difficult would it be to install the motor into my 110 with all the electronics? Can I strip all the sensors and will the engine run without them? I am sure I will have more questions, but thought I would start some conversations. Thanks
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  #2  
Old March 6th, 2014, 07:59 AM
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I doubt you can easily 'strip all the sensors' I think the Callaway is a late 90s variant...

The engine management would be a nightmare but anything can be done with enough money and time... I wouldn't want to trail blaze this swap...
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Old March 6th, 2014, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usadventureracing View Post
Currently I have a 3.5 in my 110 and I have a available to me a 4.6L Callaway range rover (i have access to the whole car, so whatever I need it is there) and was wondering how difficult would it be to install the motor into my 110 with all the electronics? Can I strip all the sensors and will the engine run without them? I am sure I will have more questions, but thought I would start some conversations. Thanks
The answer is it might start up but it will run like crap, go through a crap load of fuel, will not idle, etc... The sensors are what makes the EFI system work. You can convert it to carb with the proper manifold and just leave all the sensors in place to lug up holes and get it to run.

You should look into a MegaSquirt system if you want to run EFI.
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  #4  
Old March 6th, 2014, 08:20 AM
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I would say that you should use all the engine electronics. It makes life easier. Just be careful when you remove the engine harness and you'll be good.
Here's a download of the GEMS box with all the pin outs and functions.
http://www.nanocom-diagnostics.com/d.../467981707.pdf
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  #5  
Old March 6th, 2014, 08:34 AM
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Easily done if a gems engine ? If so you will need the gems engine wiring harness from a discovery 1. You will need to fit a NAS 110 fuel tank and in tank fuel pump and discovery 1 y pipe as well. You will need to send me the ecu and engine wiring harness for customisation.

Contact me for details if you have further interest
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Old March 6th, 2014, 08:39 AM
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I have a complete GEMS harness and ECU that would make your swap pretty painless. Came off a 4.0 but I believe it'll fit that 4.6 without issue.

-Ash
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  #7  
Old March 6th, 2014, 01:28 PM
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You finally got your hands on that RR. Congrats Brett.

Are you going to swap out the transmission to?
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Old March 6th, 2014, 01:40 PM
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Makes sense to keep the engine with the stock gems efi from the RR since there is a bump in the tuning that gives the callaway a bit more pep that the bog stock gems 4.6
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  #9  
Old March 6th, 2014, 02:04 PM
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Does calloway do anything to the heads?

Like others have said, removing the cam and ECM for a distributor set up would make it just as attractive as any other 4.6 out there.

I'm not sure you could retain that ECM if you wanted to without an electronic ZF auto swap.
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  #10  
Old March 6th, 2014, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertf View Post
Does calloway do anything to the heads?

Like others have said, removing the cam and ECM for a distributor set up would make it just as attractive as any other 4.6 out there.
Nooooo! Coil packs and wasted spark are a gazillion times better than a diz fer crissakes.

Quote:
I'm not sure you could retain that ECM if you wanted to without an electronic ZF auto swap.
Yes.
Since there were only 220 Callaways ever made it's sad to see one become an organ donor.
Callaway has the details of the engine work on their website, if you are interested. Boils down to gas flowed and shaved heads, PROM remap, and a few other odds and ends.
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  #11  
Old March 6th, 2014, 05:38 PM
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Thank you for all the responses. The RR has been sitting next door for awhile and I have been kicking the idea around for awhile. Not sure what I am going to do just yet as I really would like to put a Cummings mil spec diesel in but my galvanized frame is set up for a V8 and do not really wanted move the engine mounts.
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  #12  
Old March 6th, 2014, 05:54 PM
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Wish you were closer, I have a 3.9 I'll give you.
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  #13  
Old March 6th, 2014, 06:41 PM
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I wonder if the Callaway RR has front wheel knock sensors like the '97 D90 ? They are part of the '97's D90 electronics package to sense off road use VS actual engine ping from low grade fuel. Prior to '97 the D90's have a different swivel ball and the upper pin is hollow to accommodate the off road "knock" sensors.

I'm not sure but the 110 swivel balls are the variant that takes a lager upper swivel ball pin, but the pins in these are not hollow to accommodate the sensor. Then there's the sensor wheel in the assembly too that spins with the brake disc, on a regular vehicle these sensors and wheel is part of the ABS brake system.

You might have to get a '97 D90 front assembly in order to get the Callaway electronics to work properly unless you are able to turn this feature off electronically.
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  #14  
Old March 6th, 2014, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o2batsea View Post
Since there were only 220 Callaways ever made it's sad to see one become an organ donor.
A P38 belongs in the scrap yard right next to the Freelanders.
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  #15  
Old March 6th, 2014, 07:42 PM
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the callaway website lists quite a few changes to those heads. I say go for it and put whatever fuel system you want on there. You should still see a difference

------ Follow up post added March 6th, 2014 06:43 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis View Post
I wonder if the Callaway RR has front wheel knock sensors like the '97 D90 ? They are part of the '97's D90 electronics package to sense off road use VS actual engine ping from low grade fuel. Prior to '97 the D90's have a different swivel ball and the upper pin is hollow to accommodate the off road "knock" sensors.

I'm not sure but the 110 swivel balls are the variant that takes a lager upper swivel ball pin, but the pins in these are not hollow to accommodate the sensor. Then there's the sensor wheel in the assembly too that spins with the brake disc, on a regular vehicle these sensors and wheel is part of the ABS brake system.

You might have to get a '97 D90 front assembly in order to get the Callaway electronics to work properly unless you are able to turn this feature off electronically.

p38s use ball joints and way different sensors ,but the abs probably still communicates to the gems box the same as a disco/97 90. Plenty of people have pulled the abs fuse without any engine problems, that would be the equivalent of leaving those parts out of an engine swap.
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  #16  
Old March 6th, 2014, 08:27 PM
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Thought you might find this informative....
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  #17  
Old March 7th, 2014, 07:56 AM
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I have done about six gem 4.6 installs into Defenders that had no motor or had the diesel engine being removed. There are a lot of things to watch out for when doing this.

First the p38 4.6 doesn't have the best front cover set up for the swap. It is thinner than the discovery front covers and uses different locations for things like the power steering pump. May be able to make this work but i found it easier to use the discovery set up because it used the same location as the gems Defender and things like power steering lines you can buy for a gems defender without any modifications to make them work. It also put the a/c compressor in the right spot if you have or add a/c with a kit made for a gems defender. while on the subject of front covers a note that the cam sensor is different between the thin and thick covers and will not work if swapped.

Second not sure what trans you are running but if a zf auto the bolt pattern on the flex to torque converter is different between a gems and 14 cux set up. This matters because crank sensor pickup is made in the flywheel. so you need a discovery 1 zf trans for gems if going with a zf auto. the one in the p38 won't work because it won't mate to the lt 230. If going with a stick shift then you need to find a gems flywheel for a r380.

Third the p38 gems wire harness might work but really locates the ecu in the front of the engine bay when it is better or more room in the back of the engine bay. So again the d1 comes in to play. These engine harness are better suited for this conversion they put the ecu towards the back of the engine bay and have three main connectors. When pulling this of a donor truck make sure to get both sides of these connectors. Get about 3-4 inches of wire that goes in to the main harness. That way you can unplug the engine harness from the truck at a later time if the need arises. It only takes about 10 wires to hook up and you can make the gems set up run. (see next point) this would include the ability to hook up a obd2 scanner to pull codes and watch sensors. You can add more more wires depending on what is needed or wanted for warning light and a/c control and inputs from the trans harness such as if it is in gear or to hook up the speed sensor.

Forth the gems ecu was set up from the factory to not work with an input from an alarm ecu. The gems ecu can be reprogrammed to ignore this feature. I have the ability to relearn this to the gems ecu as i am sure others do as well. so i recommend to have this done or you have to use and wire up a alarm ecu and on a p38 this is done by the becm. I am sure no one wants to have one of those on a defender. i guess you could also use one from a d1. but i have just reprogrammed the gems ecu.

Fifth the abs ecu and abs wheel speed sensors can be ignored. depending on the gems ecu prom chip level this may turn on a check engine light or have a fault stored with no light on assuming the check engine light is hooked up. The early ecu's would make the check engine light come on when a wheel speed sensor fault occurred. They later changed it to only store a fault code but not trigger the light.

Sixth point is fuel tank or fuel pump i have used the steel tanks from a range rover classic i think the same as nas d110 tanks as Doug has said this allows the use of a correct fuel pump needed for the gems set up. Again may be other options for a inline pump but i have not messed with that.

There is more to make the install happen but those are the main parts that i can think of right now. Also i think the callaway used a larger t.body opening so the intake hose won't work off a normal gems motor so there might be a clearance problem if you have to fit the callaway intake hose.
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  #18  
Old March 7th, 2014, 09:59 AM
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Another issue I ran into is that when using a disco zf automatic on a 4.6 with a plenum and throttle from a p38 there is no provision for the kick down cable on the p38 throttle assembly.

Since part of what is cool about your engine is the flowed intake you may have to customize the throttle mechanism on the side of the plenum if you plan to use an automatic trans.
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