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  #1  
Old May 29th, 2015, 04:17 PM
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Pulled flamed trap . . .

And found the below. Granted, the engine has significant miles (200K on a 3.9), but is the sense of dread I'm feeling unfounded? In the midst of a complete tune up to try to get the truck running and am wondering if I should order 1 or 2 cases of sea foam at this point.
thoughts?
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  #2  
Old May 29th, 2015, 04:18 PM
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Whoa. I'd start with a 55 gallon drum of the stuff and see where that gets you.

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  #3  
Old May 29th, 2015, 04:36 PM
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Is that the new to you hunter?

Is that on top of the rockers or the baffle? If it's the rockers, you need a rebuild. If it's the baffle, your only hope is that someone already rebuilt it and forgot to clean up in there.

Honestly, forget seafoam. It doesn't do anything for that sort of stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abrooks View Post
And found the below. Granted, the engine has significant miles (200K on a 3.9), but is the sense of dread I'm feeling unfounded? In the midst of a complete tune up to try to get the truck running and am wondering if I should order 1 or 2 cases of sea foam at this point.
thoughts?
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Present:
1960 SII 109"- "Red Square"
1984 90 Tdi- "Yamelo"
1988 RRC- "Chewbacca"
1987 RRC- "Chewy 2"
2008 RRS SC- "The Supersofa"

Past:
1959 SII 88"- "The Little Green Beastie" last seen in NY
1972 SIII 88"- "GreenHELL" now in NC
1988 90 "Eric the Half a Bee" half a truck, sold for parts
1991 RRC- never got a name- long since recycled
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  #4  
Old May 29th, 2015, 04:45 PM
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Yes, this is that truck. What you see is on top of the baffle, but based on the condition of the rest of the components, I'd be surprised if it's been rebuilt anytime recently.
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  #5  
Old May 30th, 2015, 07:47 AM
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Pull the rocker cover & have a look. If it were me, I'd pull both sides and clean them off the engine as to not send all that crap throughout the engine.

How does the rocker look through the fill hole?
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  #6  
Old May 30th, 2015, 08:01 AM
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Fill hole.
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  #7  
Old May 30th, 2015, 08:08 AM
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Rotella oil + motor flush at the change.


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Just a few miles from 4x4 access!
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  #8  
Old May 30th, 2015, 09:13 AM
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Man a splash of marvel mystery and rotella, iI'm betting if you disturb all that sludge you're risking blocking off oil passages in the top end. pull the pan an clean the pickup at a minimum, a 3.9 With 200k is probably not even worth a tuneup.
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  #9  
Old May 30th, 2015, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abrooks View Post
thoughts?
Tony, has this engine run at all in your possession? It looks like one of the POs ran it without changing the oil for many, many, many years.
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  #10  
Old May 30th, 2015, 09:38 AM
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For about 30' Ed. I was hopeful that replacing the plug lead that was broken off in the cap (!) would get her to run (I did replace them all) but no luck. Will try to get it running and am starting to look for other engine options. Since it will be an antique next year, I'm not going to get too wrapped up in emissions at this point.
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  #11  
Old May 30th, 2015, 10:31 AM
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Is rotella somehow special?

I have used sea foam in the oil, marvel etc with mixed results. I always worry about spinning a bearing when putting solvents in my oil. It hasn't happened yet. But its a worry I have. I generally get the engine good and hot and add the solvent at idle (engine flush amount) and let it idle with no load for 10 minutes.

When I get an old/high miles car that's full of crud like that, I like to pull the valve covers and just clean it out. Straight sea foam or gas or whatever solvent would be cool and not spin bearings. Not unusual for me to unbolt the rocker train and just wash it. Its a good inspection time and you know if it gets like that again by next oil change you have other work to do. You never know if it's been neglected and is just filthy or if it has a broken/worn part.

In well over 60 used cars under my belt (i want to drive them all before I die) I haven't noticed a difference in oil brand. Few people use any specific brand. Whatever they get at the quick change shop.. so quaker state and pennzoil and they get along fine.

My 1st choice is castrol (from my toyota days.. it was painted on their cars, so it must be cool) but I use everything from generic wal-mart up to mobil 1 and, since its the only diesel oil at auto palace... rotella. I basically buy whatever oil I think the engine deserves/will tolerate. Series 2-1/4s/air cooled get walmart. Bmw/benz/new vw gets castrol synth or mobil 1. Rover diesel gets truck oil. If I'm living in a desert area, I go a little higher quality just in case the engine runs hotter than it should.
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  #12  
Old May 30th, 2015, 10:09 PM
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Cleaning all that crap out from under the valve Covers won't do jack for the stuff that's under the valley pan. And it won't help the worn cam and lifters either. And surely at 200k it needs rings so why do all that other stuff. Just build a 4.2 and move on. That way you only do everything once rather than fuck around trying to get a tired engine running and then have to do it all again when you find out how gutless it is. ------ Follow up post added May 30th, 2015 10:09 PM ------ Rotella for the zinc
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Present:
1960 SII 109"- "Red Square"
1984 90 Tdi- "Yamelo"
1988 RRC- "Chewbacca"
1987 RRC- "Chewy 2"
2008 RRS SC- "The Supersofa"

Past:
1959 SII 88"- "The Little Green Beastie" last seen in NY
1972 SIII 88"- "GreenHELL" now in NC
1988 90 "Eric the Half a Bee" half a truck, sold for parts
1991 RRC- never got a name- long since recycled
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  #13  
Old May 30th, 2015, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abrooks View Post
For about 30' Ed.
That's a good sign. If it will run for 30 minutes with no knocks/rattles, then good chance the bearings are still ok for a while.

For smallest money, I would personally clean out the valvetrain (as the bobeck says) Bottom end you can't do much about. Run it until it dies.
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  #14  
Old May 30th, 2015, 10:39 PM
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30 feet, Ed. From transport trailer to driveway. Power steering was dead so I couldn't go any further.
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  #15  
Old May 30th, 2015, 10:59 PM
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FYSA
Found a table comparing the zinc levels in oils. Unless there's a special rotella +zinc. they're all in the same ballpark (vicinity of 1500ppm) and rotella is middle of the road (1150-1454 depending on weight and mix). Plenty have lower (down to about 1200ppm) But not in diesel specific oil. Looks like chevron 15-40 is the max zinc diesel specific oil.
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  #16  
Old May 30th, 2015, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abrooks View Post
30 feet, Ed. From transport trailer to driveway. Power steering was dead so I couldn't go any further.
oh...
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  #17  
Old May 30th, 2015, 11:42 PM
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I would clean the trap. Pull the wire out and spray with carb cleaner or soak in gas until clean. Check the PCV system (a big cause of the gunk in my experience). Replace hoses as needed or just do them all. Give it an oil change and then change the filter every 500 miles until it is no longer heavy (you can tell). Throw in a quart of ATF or your solvent of choice if you must.

IME it will be fine if it runs and does not knock/tick. Even if it ticks, it will probably be fine. If it sounds like a freight train (ie lifter noise), it will probably still run, but the cam is probably shot, but it will run.

I have seen some terribly gummed up rover V8 and they pretty much all ran well enough to get along.
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  #18  
Old May 30th, 2015, 11:45 PM
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I think what killed these engines was the 7500 mile oil change maintainence schedule.
That's insane. 3 months 3k miles tops.
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  #19  
Old May 30th, 2015, 11:52 PM
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Yeah they will keep running. Just no point in doing all the additives and crap and spending time and money thinking you are helping matters at all. The gunk is there to stay. A worn hydraulic lifter will still pump up and be nice and quiet as it grinds your cam away. Rotella was the go to oil for flat tappet engines a few years ago according to the internet oil guy. Most of the manufacturers were taking the Zddp or whatever out of the oils and it was hurting the old flat tappet motors. I'd be interested to see the new chart that was referenced. I do recall hearing that most oils were adding something back in to fix the problem but I'm still using the Rotella since I have it anyway for my diesels. YMMV.

Btw a new flame trap is short money vs. the time to clean one. Make sure you clean out the little doohickey on the back of the LH valve cover too, or just leave them both alone since....well, you know...
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Present:
1960 SII 109"- "Red Square"
1984 90 Tdi- "Yamelo"
1988 RRC- "Chewbacca"
1987 RRC- "Chewy 2"
2008 RRS SC- "The Supersofa"

Past:
1959 SII 88"- "The Little Green Beastie" last seen in NY
1972 SIII 88"- "GreenHELL" now in NC
1988 90 "Eric the Half a Bee" half a truck, sold for parts
1991 RRC- never got a name- long since recycled
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