Propane Injection Installed on my 200tdi - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old August 30th, 2015, 05:30 PM
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Pablo Cocito
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Propane Injection Installed on my 200tdi

I had been curious about this system for some time and finally decided to purchase a kit at Propane Injection Systems for Diesel, Gas, Turbocharged Engine Trucks, water vapor air fuel system separators, fuel savings. Keith is a great guy that knows his stuff. He shipped the kit with a conservative setting for the 200tdi. Installation is really easy and everything needed is included. The only thing I didn't buy yet is a propane tank so I did the maiden flight with the propane bottle I borrowed from our BBQ. I have to decide a place for the tank before I know the measurements and so on.

It has a System Power switch and a System Activate switch that I installed in the center console. When the system is activated the propane flow starts when boost reaches 5psi and increases as boost increases. It can also be set for performance o for economy/ towing. Or just OFF

To sum it up: It's another engine, much more drive able with low end torque and power that can be felt in the butt dyno. Everything happens with much less pressure on the gas pedal. Black smoke at cruise speed has all but disappeared and when starting off the line the smoke is a light transparent gray. Cars actually stay behind me now. I still have to do a lot of testing but temperature and EGT were all OK.

Here some pics

I don't know what I did up there with the link... My intention was to put dieselperformanceproducts.com. I'm not affiliated with that business if it matters
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  #2  
Old August 30th, 2015, 05:40 PM
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Was just talking to a guy who is doing this on his MB wagon .....
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  #3  
Old August 30th, 2015, 06:52 PM
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Propane

Just keep it dialed down, or you'll end up like this guy, lolClick image for larger version

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  #4  
Old October 1st, 2015, 06:41 AM
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Any update on this ? How is you fuel economy envolved compaired to before ?
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  #5  
Old October 1st, 2015, 07:43 AM
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Now it is time for you to get a manual boost controller and turn the boost up to match your combined fuel intake. Propane burns hot and is known to burn stock valves and cause head cracking, so play it safe with low amounts.

The pictures shows what appears yo be a regulator and a on/off solenoid.
To get proper effect, would think the injection has to happen pre-turbo.
What you're getting is a combination of quicker and more complete combustion with the richer fuel charge.
Unlike other systems I have seen, if your setup can sense manifold pressures like the ALDA on the IP and increase/decrease propane intake, then the system will let you accomplish fine tuning with a max threshold.
In other words you can set a max propane pressure with the regulator of say 7 PSI.
Then use the propane intake sensor to meter the fuel in on boost pressure.
Since the TDI turbos are small and build boost quickly, you'll get a small say 2 PSI off the line and more propane say 7 PSI at max boost.
With 3-6 PSI along the way (I think).

The other systems I've seen in use are based on petal pressure which is less efficient, but has the benefit (and waste) of ignoring turbine pressure (based on what I think I read on the web site - wasn't exactly clear) in the inlet manifold.
I would think the system you have that senses pressure (like the IP AldA) is more economical.

See if a standard size bottle will fit in the center body dead space side locker area.
You have an X-Mod, right?
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  #6  
Old October 1st, 2015, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
Now it is time for you to get a manual boost controller and turn the boost up to match your combined fuel intake. Propane burns hot and is known to burn stock valves and cause head cracking, so play it safe with low amounts. The pictures shows what appears yo be a regulator and a on/off solenoid. To get proper effect, would think the injection has to happen pre-turbo. What you're getting is a combination of quicker and more complete combustion with the richer fuel charge. Unlike other systems I have seen, if your setup can sense manifold pressures like the ALDA on the IP and increase/decrease propane intake, then the system will let you accomplish fine tuning with a max threshold.
Hijack: Robert at what point is it ever needed to do a manual boost control on the OM617. I've seen you reference it in the past.
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Old October 1st, 2015, 08:00 AM
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Robert Davis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheway View Post
Hijack: Robert at what point is it ever needed to do a manual boost control on the OM617. I've seen you reference it in the past.
When you turn the fuel up to take advantage of the extra boost.
Boost alone has marginal effect with diminishing returns without more fuel.
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #8  
Old October 4th, 2015, 05:12 PM
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Pablo Cocito
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
Now it is time for you to get a manual boost controller and turn the boost up to match your combined fuel intake. Propane burns hot and is known to burn stock valves and cause head cracking, so play it safe with low amounts.

The pictures shows what appears yo be a regulator and a on/off solenoid.
To get proper effect, would think the injection has to happen pre-turbo.
What you're getting is a combination of quicker and more complete combustion with the richer fuel charge.
Unlike other systems I have seen, if your setup can sense manifold pressures like the ALDA on the IP and increase/decrease propane intake, then the system will let you accomplish fine tuning with a max threshold.
In other words you can set a max propane pressure with the regulator of say 7 PSI.
Then use the propane intake sensor to meter the fuel in on boost pressure.
Since the TDI turbos are small and build boost quickly, you'll get a small say 2 PSI off the line and more propane say 7 PSI at max boost.
With 3-6 PSI along the way (I think).

The other systems I've seen in use are based on petal pressure which is less efficient, but has the benefit (and waste) of ignoring turbine pressure (based on what I think I read on the web site - wasn't exactly clear) in the inlet manifold.
I would think the system you have that senses pressure (like the IP AldA) is more economical.

See if a standard size bottle will fit in the center body dead space side locker area.
You have an X-Mod, right?
Robert, yes the intake is pre turbo and the propane injector is boost dependent. I have it regulated to open at 6 psi = 1 cfpm and it goes to a maximum of 2cfpm at around 20 PSI. I cruise at a constant of 11 or 12 psi so it must be 1.5 cfpm or so. Having it open at 6psi gives me nice power off the line and less smoke too, and a noticeable increase in power at high rpm where I can pickup speed even on a 2% hill.
When I just installed it the flow was higher and the engine was pulling incredible with no knocking but I decided to dial it down.

Now I'm getting 25.5 MPG while using 1 gallon of LP every 85 miles. This is at mostly highway at 70mph on the clock (66mph on gps)

It has a switch to turn it ON/OFF but I usually have it ON since the extra power is addictive. In the future I will turn it ON while city driving and on steep hills and have it OFF the rest of the time. I love this thing. If it burns my valves or something bad I'll let you guys know
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  #9  
Old October 4th, 2015, 05:14 PM
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Pablo Cocito
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This is the LPG injector going into the air intake
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  #10  
Old October 4th, 2015, 05:55 PM
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Robert Davis
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Pablo:
Have you decided where the propane tank will reside?
What size?
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #11  
Old October 4th, 2015, 06:26 PM
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Pablo Cocito
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
Pablo:
Have you decided where the propane tank will reside?
What size?
I used BBQ tanks for a while and than I purchased a 12gallon tank that gives me an autonomy of about 1000 miles. I plan to cut the floor just behind the rear firewall and use the space that would be used as rear footwell on the 5 door trucks. I could have fitted one 4 gallon tank on each of the side locker doors of my ex mod but I didn't find them readily available
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  #12  
Old October 4th, 2015, 09:30 PM
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Pablo Cocito
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Defender1987 View Post
Any update on this ? How is you fuel economy envolved compaired to before ?
I was getting 20 to 21mpg, now 25 to 25.5 and 1 gallon of propane every 85 miles with the actual settings.
With the first settings ( more propane flow) I got 27.5 mpg and power was amazing but I was using about 1gallon propane every 50 miles
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