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  #21  
Old April 13th, 2009, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Departing90
Fair enough.
Prove me wrong??

Really?

There are linear springs, 2 step linear springs, and progressive springs. I have 8 linear springs on my truck. You can research it and find it for yourself very easily.
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  #22  
Old April 13th, 2009, 11:16 AM
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I have the RTE Progressive springs for my 110, They rattled a bit as the first 5 or so coils haven't fully collapsed. I took them off to have them coated and they will go back on.
The performance is awesome both on and off road, the ride is excellent and the coolest part is that iIhave to compress the the spring slightly to get them out. That's using the jackstand on the frame push down the axle with the tire off trick to change springs and RTE cranked arms. There is no way with a 12 inch shock up front that this spring will pop out of it's perch.

Since these were copied directly from an SG spring I'd have to say the SG version is a good spring as well.
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  #23  
Old April 13th, 2009, 11:32 AM
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sorry i mis read, i have rovrtymes as well
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  #24  
Old April 13th, 2009, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckon37s
Really?

There are linear springs, 2 step linear springs, and progressive springs. I have 8 linear springs on my truck. You can research it and find it for yourself very easily.
Edit: I have 12 linear springs on my truck!
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  #25  
Old April 13th, 2009, 01:22 PM
Departing90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckon37s
Really?

There are linear springs, 2 step linear springs, and progressive springs. I have 8 linear springs on my truck. You can research it and find it for yourself very easily.
All springs have a progressive affect to them even the so called linear ones! The further you compress a spring a progressively harder force is needed!
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  #26  
Old April 13th, 2009, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Departing90
All springs have a progressive affect to them even the so called linear ones! The further you compress a spring a progressively harder force is needed!
That is not what progressive means.

Progressive means that the spring rate is increasing. Linear means the spring rate is constant. Most of the "progressive" springs used on Rovers are really 2 step springs (they have two spring rates).
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  #27  
Old April 13th, 2009, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90
That is not what progressive means.

Progressive means that the spring rate is increasing. Linear means the spring rate is constant. Most of the "progressive" springs used on Rovers are really 2 step springs (they have two spring rates).
Well, thats what i said but even linear springs have a progressive rate to them.

Linear does mean that the spring rate is constant but springs are not. They all have a progressive curve to them by their very nature! Progressive springs have a higher progressive rate because they are simply wound tighter at one end!
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  #28  
Old April 13th, 2009, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Departing90
Linear does mean that the spring rate is constant but springs are not. They all have a progressive curve to them by their very nature! Progressive springs have a higher progressive rate because they are simply wound tighter at one end!
Try to go off and learn what "spring rate" means. A constant spring rate is a linear spring. This means that force increases linearly with compression.

Progressive means the force increases in a non-linear fashion with compression.
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  #29  
Old April 13th, 2009, 03:55 PM
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Chris Snyder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Departing90
Linear does mean that the spring rate is constant but springs are not. They all have a progressive curve to them by their very nature! Progressive springs have a higher progressive rate because they are simply wound tighter at one end!
I think you're using the wrong words, Sasha. When you compress a spring the load you need to compress that spring does increase depending on how far you compress it. The difference between a linear spring and a progressive spring is how that force increases. In a "linear spring" that load increases on a linear scale. In a progressive spring it does not. I don't know what kind've scale. Maybe logarithmically? I guess that would make more sense than exponentially.

Maybe someone else will chime in how exactly a progressive spring differs from a linear spring as far as compression force is concerned. But I think you're confusing terms.

Follow-up Post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90
Try to go off and learn what "spring rate" means. A constant spring rate is a linear spring. This means that force increases linearly with compression.

Progressive means the force increases in a non-linear fashion with compression.
Beat me to it
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  #30  
Old April 13th, 2009, 04:43 PM
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And all I wanted to know was is it worth it to have these Progressive Coils or simply slap RTE or OME *LOL*

Thanks for all the input
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  #31  
Old April 13th, 2009, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Departing90
Well, thats what i said but even linear springs have a progressive rate to them.

Linear does mean that the spring rate is constant but springs are not. They all have a progressive curve to them by their very nature! Progressive springs have a higher progressive rate because they are simply wound tighter at one end!
You are using your wrong logic as a stepping stone in order to become way wrong. Linear springs DO NOT have a progressive rate. If you have a spring with a 100LB rate, it will compress 1in for every 100lb placed on it. 100=1in. 200=2in ect, there is no progression. Your also dead backwards on the second point. Your thinking of a two step spring. A progressive spring will taper the wire diameter to make a true progressive rate. I would recommend that you do your own research on it if you don't understand what we are all saying.
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  #32  
Old April 13th, 2009, 07:20 PM
Departing90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckon37s
You are using your wrong logic as a stepping stone in order to become way wrong. Linear springs DO NOT have a progressive rate. If you have a spring with a 100LB rate, it will compress 1in for every 100lb placed on it. 100=1in. 200=2in ect, there is no progression. Your also dead backwards on the second point. Your thinking of a two step spring. A progressive spring will taper the wire diameter to make a true progressive rate. I would recommend that you do your own research on it if you don't understand what we are all saying.
I believe your above example to be incorrect!

I think its a good if you backed up your claims with proof to finalize this matter & save this back & forth posting! Link a few suspension FAQ etc......

That is the best solution including for future reference so when someone uses the search button they will find an be all end all answer!

Anything less than that i am sticking to my explanation!
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  #33  
Old April 13th, 2009, 07:53 PM
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Tony - I don't think its unreasonable to ask that you do one of the following-
1) know what you are talking about and support it with evidence when questioned
2) phrase your answer in the form of a question
3) don't post
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  #34  
Old April 13th, 2009, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimC
Tony - I don't think its unreasonable to ask that you do one of the following-
1) know what you are talking about and support it with evidence when questioned
2) phrase your answer in the form of a question
3) don't post
JimC; you have the patience of a saint...
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  #35  
Old April 13th, 2009, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimC
Tony - I don't think its unreasonable to ask that you do one of the following-
1) know what you are talking about and support it with evidence when questioned
2) phrase your answer in the form of a question
3) don't post
In order Jim,

1. I believe my posts regarding progressive springs to be correct just like every other members posts on this forum in relation to any tech matter!
2. I asked for corroborative links to support arguments!
3. I actually dont post in every thread in this section. Only the ones were i believe i can be of assistance or benefit!

Have a nice day Jim.
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  #36  
Old April 13th, 2009, 08:36 PM
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1) Belief in the veracity of your own claims is not sufficient to render them true. The difference between other responders and you is expertise. We know these guys have a lot of knowledge and experience in what they are talking about. From your posts here we know you can disassemble a 90 and allegedly differentiate between real and fake breasts.
2) You do not entitled to exact a higher standard from others than you observe yourself.
3) There remains a large gap between "reality" and your "belief." If you think you can be of assistance, then assist - don't just mince terms and offer simple contradictions.
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  #37  
Old April 13th, 2009, 08:40 PM
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Have you seen the latest south park episode? I think Kyle explains it rather nicely .
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  #38  
Old April 13th, 2009, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Departing90
I believe your above example to be incorrect!

I think its a good if you backed up your claims with proof to finalize this matter & save this back & forth posting! Link a few suspension FAQ etc......

That is the best solution including for future reference so when someone uses the search button they will find an be all end all answer!

Anything less than that i am sticking to my explanation!
Why if you have no idea what you are talking about do you post? Why would you keep posting when you have not even done the smallest amount of any research on this topic? I don't understand people like you.

Here: http://stockcarproducts.com/spgtech.htm It proves you wrong.

"If a spring's rate is linear (most racing springs have linear rates) its rate is not affected by the load put onto the spring. For example, a linear rate spring rated at 500 lb. per inch will compress 1" when a 500 lb. weight is placed onto the spring. If another 500 lb. weight is put onto the spring the spring will compress another inch. At this point the load on the spring has increased to 1000 pounds. The rate of the spring, however, remains constant at 500 lb. per inch."


Here: http://www.tuninglinx.com/html/lowering-springs.html

The second one is a really dumbed down explanation, so I suggest you start with that. There you go. Now please post up YOUR proof of how there is no such thing as a linear spring, and especially how my explanation is incorrect:

Linear springs DO NOT have a progressive rate. If you have a spring with a 100LB rate, it will compress 1in for every 100lb placed on it. 100=1in. 200=2in ect, there is no progression.
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  #39  
Old April 13th, 2009, 08:57 PM
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Anyway, back to some amount of actual discussion...

Like I said most "progressive" springs that are made for our trucks are two stage springs. They have two distinct spring rates. The SG springs are a good example.

http://www.safarigard.com/store/imag...73%20small.jpg

These have 12 coils, with 5 or so tightly coiled. When these touch, the rate increases. The spring rate is proportional to the number of active coils. These start with 10 active coils and then change to around 6, so the rate goes up 10/6=167%
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  #40  
Old April 13th, 2009, 09:14 PM
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So has anybody tried the new springs from SG???
I would like to get a 2" lift on a new Defender Tdi in the garage. The 3" for the front and 2" for the rear sound like they would be nice. RTE has the 3" progressive for the front but not a 2" for the rear. That is the set up I am running on the trail Defender Tdi and it has worked out really well. So my question would be why should I change a good thing? Would the progressive springs on the rear be that much better?
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