Possible transmission damage? - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old August 15th, 2014, 12:07 AM
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Mike & Carrie Wendt
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Possible transmission damage?

My wife was rear ended today in our 1986 MoD 90. She is a little sore but should be Okay.

She was slowing for a stop sign, shifting from 3rd to 2nd, doing 25mph or less when hit. The offending car was a Fiat 500. (Have a good laugh, I did!)

We have one of those inexpensive aluminum cargo carrier baskets attached to the hitch receiver, which is what the Fiat hit. It was pushed into the bumperettes and the rear quarter panels are bent a little. From the pictures of the Fiat, my estimate is he was going about 15mph faster at impact.

At first my wife didn't realize she was hit, she thought the transmission was coming apart. She is pretty sure she was in between 3rd and 2nd at impact. Had she been fully in any gear at impact, I seriously doubt any drive train damage would be done.

My question is, could the windup caused by the impact damage the transmission (LT77)? I can think of a couple scenarios. 1, as the teeth were disengaging 3rd gear. 2, as the teeth were engaging 2nd. 3, the shift was between gears but the inertia of the impact caused my wife's arm to jam the shifter into 2nd or 4th.

She had to drive about 2 miles home and said it "seemed rougher" but she also was still pumped full of adrenaline.

Thoughts? If it drives and shifts normally, what is the chance of subtle damage that won't show up for a while? Is there a practical way to look for damage without tearing down the transmission?

Thanks,

Mike
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  #2  
Old August 15th, 2014, 12:13 AM
javelinadave
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Hi Mike,
Glad nobody got hurt. I doubt there is any transmission damage but you could always drain it and see what sticks to the magnet on the drain plug. If its filings you are all good. If its chunks of metal than something is damaged. Thats all I would think you could do without tearing the transmission apart.

When are you going to be in PHX again? We need to grab lunch again when you do.
Dave
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  #3  
Old August 15th, 2014, 12:29 AM
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Mike & Carrie Wendt
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Thanks Dave. There is a small chance I'll be in Phoenix the third week of September, I'll let you know.

I was thinking of draining to look for chunks. The transmission is full of that not-so-cheap Red Line stuff with maybe 8000 miles. I suppose if it's spotlessly clean I could reuse, otherwise refill with new.

Mike
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  #4  
Old August 15th, 2014, 12:30 AM
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shayne young
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Check to make sure that the engine mounts aren't broken and shifted.. Can change the position of the driveshafts etc and will feel strange..quick shunts are often enough to dislodge the engine from its mounts..
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  #5  
Old August 15th, 2014, 12:35 AM
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So the ring and pinion would be the weak link in this scenario? I can drain the differentials too.

This raises the question, is there a consensus here on the Forum for the best differential fluid?

Thanks,

Mike

Quote:
Originally Posted by JSBriggs View Post
The actual gear teeth are in constant mesh, so no damage there. The dog teeth on the synchro are pretty stout, but i suppose its possible. If any damage at all in the transmission, it would probably be the groves on the cone clutch of the synchro ring. But before it got that far I would think the ring and pinion in the diff would be the weak link from an impact shock load.

-Jeff
------ Follow up post added August 15th, 2014 02:39 PM ------

For the record, I'm in Guam and my wife and D90 are in Phoenix.

How do I explain to my wife (who actually is pretty good mechanically) how to check for broken engine mounts?

Is there a good Defender shop in Phoenix? The Fiat has insurance so should pay for inspections.

Mike

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Originally Posted by the rover shop View Post
Check to make sure that the engine mounts aren't broken and shifted.. Can change the position of the driveshafts etc and will feel strange..quick shunts are often enough to dislodge the engine from its mounts..
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  #6  
Old August 16th, 2014, 07:47 AM
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So, there is no Defender specialist shop in Phoenix? Somewhere else in AZ?

Can anyone recommend a body shop to straighten the rear quarter panels?

Thanks,

Mike
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  #7  
Old August 16th, 2014, 08:24 AM
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Glad to hear your wife is OK. That's why when it was time to teach my daughter to drive, I put her in our d2, a tank.

Did you try rover n techs in Scottsdale?
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Old August 16th, 2014, 08:25 AM
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If it drives and shifts normally what's the problem?
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  #9  
Old August 16th, 2014, 08:36 AM
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I'll have my wife call them Monday.

Mike

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Originally Posted by rankar View Post
Glad to hear your wife is OK. That's why when it was time to teach my daughter to drive, I put her in our d2, a tank.

Did you try rover n techs in Scottsdale?
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  #10  
Old August 16th, 2014, 11:36 AM
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As for a body shop I'm sure Kevin or Joe at Rover Tech will know of a place or two. If not, Ric's Auto Body is around the corner from them. They do good work and are very honest.
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Old August 19th, 2014, 08:49 AM
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Dave, Rover Tech doesn't want to touch an old diesel military D90. But they recommended a place called Coventry. Carrie is taking it in Tuesday.

Mike

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Originally Posted by javelinadave View Post
As for a body shop I'm sure Kevin or Joe at Rover Tech will know of a place or two. If not, Ric's Auto Body is around the corner from them. They do good work and are very honest.
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Old August 19th, 2014, 12:50 PM
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If that fails try Huffs Automotive in the East Valley. It's an independent but they are all LR nuts.
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Old August 19th, 2014, 01:48 PM
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State to State Transmission on East Bell Road is another place for transmission only service.
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  #14  
Old August 21st, 2014, 09:58 PM
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Mike,
How did this turn out?
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  #15  
Old August 21st, 2014, 10:13 PM
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Carrie is picking it up from Coventry in the morning. They drained the differentials and transmission and found nothing. The engine and transmission mounts are fine.

Now to hassle with the Fiat 500's insurance company about the body damage. How does an insurance company determine the value of a vehicle like this? KBB.com doesn't have it.

Tim at Coventry has convinced my wife that the head is leaking too much oil. The last I saw it (a week before the rear end hit) we had a very slow seeping around the front right area of the head.

My current plan is to arrive on September 1, and do a quick head job. Parts have been ordered from Safari HP (thank you Steve!)

Mike

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Originally Posted by javelinadave View Post
Mike,
How did this turn out?
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  #16  
Old August 21st, 2014, 10:21 PM
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How bad is the body damage? Post up some pix or send them to my email/phone. If the rear door got bent I have a spare. If it's the rear crossmember that to is an easy replacement. A bent tub is will require some body shop work at the very least. I'm off the 3rd thru the 6th if you want to bring it by the house.
As for KBB value, good question. At the very least I would think it's worth what you paid for it assuming you have some documentation. I have an agreed value policy with State Farm, you may have the same with your insurance too.
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  #17  
Old August 21st, 2014, 10:31 PM
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Mike & Carrie Wendt
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I don't want my insurance involved, I want the Fiat 500 to pay.

And I don't carry comprehensive.

The rear cross member bent just enough to take a perfectly straight tub and make it not perfect. Sorry, I don't have access to pictures at the moment.

While I hope we can get together, if this project goes according to plan, we will be on the road the night of the 2nd. PM your cell number.

Mike

Quote:
Originally Posted by javelinadave View Post
How bad is the body damage? Post up some pix or send them to my email/phone. If the rear door got bent I have a spare. If it's the rear crossmember that to is an easy replacement. A bent tub is will require some body shop work at the very least. I'm off the 3rd thru the 6th if you want to bring it by the house.
As for KBB value, good question. At the very least I would think it's worth what you paid for it assuming you have some documentation. I have an agreed value policy with State Farm, you may have the same with your insurance too.
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  #18  
Old August 22nd, 2014, 07:24 AM
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I believe you should pressure the fiat insurance company to hire a qualified third party to do a valuation of the vehicle before they make a repair decision.

Good luck!
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