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  #1  
Old April 30th, 2008, 06:24 PM
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Poor Running 300Tdi

Well, finally got the 300Tdi installed and fired up this past weekend and after all the pent up excitment, I was a bit bummed. It started for the first time fairly well but the idle was out. We adjusted that and it seemed to idle ok for a bit then wanted to stall out again. Driving the truck didn't go so well either as the engine was not very receptive to accelerator peddle input.

Pumping the peddle didn't do much but eventually the revs would come up and you could pull away. But between shifts the power dropped off again. Once you could get the revs built up again, it seemed to pull very well, the trick was to not let up on the peddle.

Needless to say, we didn't get out for much of a test drive with the truck in this condition. Any bright ideas where I should start looking? Been driving a 2.5 NA so my buddies and I are not too familiar with this beast. I'm thinking it's a fuel delivery problem or some sort. Could it be the fuel pump maybe?

We did have a bit of a leaky fuel return line but I shouldn't think that would give us this type of problem.

I didn't see any excessive black/blue/white smoke, so that is a good sign.

Any and all ideas welcome.

Brett
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  #2  
Old April 30th, 2008, 06:50 PM
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Check that all the air hoses are hooked up. Is the turbo working?
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Old April 30th, 2008, 07:12 PM
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Sounds like your injection pump may be gummed up. Run some strong additive and maybe add some transmission fluid to the fuel. It will need some hours or miles on it to clean itself out if it can.

JP
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  #4  
Old April 30th, 2008, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoosier
Check that all the air hoses are hooked up. Is the turbo working?
Will double check the air hoses but I think they were all good. Pretty sure the turbo is working ok because when the revs did come up, the truck accelerated quite well and was pulling strongly in 3rd, WAY better then the 2.5 NA

Quote:
Originally Posted by pendy
Sounds like your injection pump may be gummed up. Run some strong additive and maybe add some transmission fluid to the fuel. It will need some hours or miles on it to clean itself out if it can.
JP
Transmission fluid? How much would one add? I'll see what kind of additives I can find.

Thanks for the ideas.

Brett
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Old April 30th, 2008, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moose
I didn't see any excessive black/blue/white smoke, so that is a good sign.
Black smoke is not always bad! ;-)
Did you make sure all injectors are misting (vs. spraying) before you installed them?
Did you let the engine warm up? Any difference cold vs. warm?
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  #6  
Old April 30th, 2008, 08:59 PM
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1) If the engine runs ok on high revs it seems the diesel line, fuel lift pump, filter and pre-filter (if you have it installed) are ok. when the lift pump fails the engine shakes a lot and stops, when the filter is clogged the engine dies on high revs...
2) Something to check are the injectors, their performance decrease gradually, some people replace them every 100.000 - 125.000 miles
3) Considering you have the mechanical Bosch injection pump there's a boost signal pipe that goes from the turbo to the injection pump diaphragm; it allows the full fuel delivery when the turbo is doing its job, check it has no leaks.
4) the turbo has a waste gate, if it kicks in too soon you'll never get the 15-17 psi (2500-3000 rpm)... check out the WG set and the actuator diaphragm...
5) For keeping the injection pump and injectors clean I've got good results with producks from Liqui Molly http://www.liquimoly.co.uk/

The response of the 300tdi with a stock turbo (fixed geometry) is as you said; the engine really pulls after 2000 rpm.
if you want an earlier response the turbo has to be changed for a Variable Geometry turbo.

Pat
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Old April 30th, 2008, 09:45 PM
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The engine supposedly only has about 60,000 miles on it and was said to be a good runner. I changed the timing belt, water pump, glow plugs and the like while I had good access. Did not remove or have tested the injectors.

I'll have a look at the things you have all suggested and make sure all hoses, pipes and bits are connected and tight.

Because it would run at higher revs, I wasn't convinced about the lift pump, but seeing as I have a new spare, figured it couldn't hurt.

Just hoping it isn't going to be someing needing big $$ to rectify. I'm already way over budget on this.

Thanks
Brett
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  #8  
Old May 1st, 2008, 12:38 PM
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300 Tdi

If the lines are in good shape, check the fuel pump or change it out with your new one. Driving these for the last 4 years I've noticed that fuel contamination/water in the fuel can become an issue in the engine stumbeling at low RPM's. Unlike my Series II 66 Diesel that will run on just about anything, the 300 Tdi is very sensative even to shitty fuel regardless of how it is branded (premium). Another thing so far as fuel additives go. You may want to check out the product made by Stanadyne. It is the only fuel additive that I'm aware of that combines fuel conditioning (flash point), cleaning and lubricity. Other products have one or two of these ingredients or you have to combine a couple of produts to acheive the three.

Only other thing that comes to mind is air in your system and if you have any, it'll act just about the way you describe. Air in the system does not create a linear result through all rpm ranges- at least not my experience. Find the blead on the pump. While it's running, open it up just a crack. that should take care of any air in the system up to that point. beyond that point, air should be expelled eventually through the fuel line/injectors. GOOD luck
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Old May 1st, 2008, 12:57 PM
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A lot of good advice here. I mention the injection pump being gummed up because my experience with installing these engines after they have sat extended periods after use. Hope to hear your solution when it presents itself.

JP
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  #10  
Old May 1st, 2008, 01:20 PM
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any chance the injection pump timing is off a little/1 tooth after changing the belt ?
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  #11  
Old May 1st, 2008, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark McDonough
...Only other thing that comes to mind is air in your system and if you have any, it'll act just about the way you describe. Air in the system does not create a linear result through all rpm ranges- at least not my experience. Find the blead on the pump. While it's running, open it up just a crack. that should take care of any air in the system up to that point. beyond that point, air should be expelled eventually through the fuel line/injectors. GOOD luck
New fuel lines and pump going in on the weekend, just to eliminate a couple suspects. There is a good likelihood of air in the system as a new filter was fitted, and well, the engine has been sitting out for a while waiting to be installed. I have looked but have not spotted a bleed on the pump. I presume you mean the injection pump, not fuel pump? I have a couple manuals, but none describe the bleeding process.

I have been using Stanadyne Lubricity in the truck for the last year. There is some in the tank now... just need to get engine running properly so the Stanadyne can do it's thing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pendy
A lot of good advice here. I mention the injection pump being gummed up because my experience with installing these engines after they have sat extended periods after use. Hope to hear your solution when it presents itself.
JP
Yes, and the advice is very much appreciated. The engine was pulled from the donor vehicle about 6 months ago, so it has been sitting unused for a bit. I am hoping it has not gummed up too much in that time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Maryland 110
any chance the injection pump timing is off a little/1 tooth after changing the belt ?
I did worry about that too, but I really obsessed with following the belt changing instructions. Pretty sure I got it correct. At one point on our aborted test run, the engine was pulling strong in 3rd gear and accelerating, which it wouldn't do if the timing was out. At least I don't think it would. I would hate to revisit the job again now. It was so much easier with the engine on the bench.


Any more thoughts before the weekend I would be glad to hear them. Will report back with results of all the fettling.

Thanks
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  #12  
Old May 2nd, 2008, 01:14 AM
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If the problem left for a brief span I would pressure test the fuel system to check the lift pump. And pay special attention to possible air leaks in the fuel lines. 6 months does not seem like enough time to gum things up. Rechecking the timing should happen as well, I'd think.

On another note, reminds me of a running problem someone brought to me sometime back. Fussed with it after finding a damaged turbocharger. The engine still did not seem to produce the power it should after replacing the turbo. And it was obvious to be making boost when it had not before. On a practically new factory engine the bolts for the intake where all a little loose. So the intake gasket was not damaged but boost was leaking during full load and hard to discern. Ic could not be heard to be loosing boost very easily. It was not leaking in one spot but the whole perimeter only above 15 psi, I believe. The intake had not been removed to replace the turbo as this was a 2.8l TGV. So the factory loose bolts had left the engines intake system to cough and weeze. This overloaded D110 needed all it could get, so it was happy to have its bolts tighened. Sometimes its the necessary easy part of the fix that makes all the difference. Even when its better continue on until its right.
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  #13  
Old May 2nd, 2008, 06:45 AM
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Hey Brett, sorry to hear it's fighting you, been "off grid" for a few days playing musical frames / motors and missed all this.


Sounds like air. Unless you have not figured it out the IP bleed screw is on the front of the pump between the bellcrank and the timing cover.

Also bleed the filter with the motor running and if you don't see plenty of fuel, and or the motor
stumbles" suspect the lift pump which is starving the IP for fuel.

Sounds as if you are getting fuel ..... but only after the motor makes enough revs to compress the air in the IP. This is also why you had to adjust the idle, once you get the air out I suspect that you will have top turn it back down.
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  #14  
Old May 3rd, 2008, 08:29 PM
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Well, thanks for your ideas guys. I will throw some new bits at it tomorrow, do a bit of fettlin here and there, try and bleed all the air out of the system and see what happpens.

I'll let you know how I make out.

Brett
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  #15  
Old May 4th, 2008, 10:38 PM
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Success!!!! We changed the fuel pump and installed some new fuel lines to eliminate the leaking joints, opened the bleed screw on the filter, cranked the engine over and she fired right up. Seemed to be running great with lots of power and none of the problems we were experiencing earlier. Checked the old pump and it was obviously knackered. Didnít seem to suck at all.

I guess I should come clean and tell you how we actually spent the first part of the day. When we first installed the engine, I was told by a friend who had done the same conversion on his 110 to install the rad, then centre the fan in the shroud. This would give us the correct height for the engine. This we did and everything looked good. At least until be went to put the bonnet on. Yep, the bonnet was resting on top of the engine and about Ĺ inch up from the closed position (insert bad words here).

It would appear that the mounts for the 2.5 NA rad and the mounts for the Tdi rad may not be quite the same. So we ended up cutting the rad mounts down and then lowering the chassis mounts down to the correct position. Everything lines up nicely now and all appears to be correct. Itís times like this that you really find out who you buddies are. A big thank you to my boys Tom and Dave.


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