Please Help...Cant use my D90 off road due to overheating... - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old June 16th, 2010, 10:07 AM
Cmikefly
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William Challancin
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Please Help...Cant use my D90 off road due to overheating...

If anyone can offer any advice on my overheating problems I would very much appreciate it. I am just about to put the truck up for sale and buy a something else as I cant use it and have spent countless hours and dollars on it.

The short version goes like this:

New water pump, thermostat, fan (mechanical flex fan), Ron Davis radiator, Alisport expansion tank, new pressure cap and VDO gauge. Radiator has new shroud and is sealed against the body work and hood using aviation weatherstripping......on a side note my aircraft now leaks air around the cockpit door.........


I have tried running with muffler removed, hood removed, and Hella 3000s removed.

Replacing the radiator and especially adding the mechanical fan helped alot but I guess it only masked the problem…….whatever that is. All winter the truck ran perfect when the A/C was off. (never over 185-190). As soon as we hit triple digit temperatures with A/C on the truck is overheating again, say 200-220 around town. I had to stop and sit at 2000rpm quite a few times in the desert last weekend to bring the temp down from 230.

As I drove home from work yesterday I decided F*&% it and started to pull the heads first thing this morning. Both sides look perfect to the naked eye. There is no indication of any leaks and no indication of any sleeve movement.

Is there anything else I should look at or do before replacing the gaskets and bolting everything up?

P.S. It has been the easiest head removal I have ever done. I was able to drop the exhaust manifolds using a ¼ drive socket and all the head bolt came out no problem and the gasket fell off in my hand. the only up side i guess


Please help if you can……alternatively accepting offers
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  #2  
Old June 16th, 2010, 10:15 AM
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Scott
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Could there be an air bubble trapped somewhere in the radiator? This is a long shot, but is the new fan on backwards?
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Old June 16th, 2010, 11:03 AM
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Jim Cheney
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And is the guage reading correctly? Especially if you have an aftermarket (like VDO) then they are notorious for reading high depending on how many electrical accessories you have running (if the unit isn't grounded perfectly).

Do you know the truck is actually overheating?
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  #4  
Old June 16th, 2010, 01:46 PM
Cmikefly
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William Challancin
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i don't think i have an air bubble as i have had several different radiators in and out of the truck over the past 18 months. i have filled and burped the system several ways. the fan is mounted correctly and i have confirmed the Temp. several ways as well.

please keep the ideas coming. i don't understand why a small V8 could be so hard to keep cool and with the new baby i am running out of time and energy with this problem.

thanks
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  #5  
Old June 16th, 2010, 01:58 PM
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I see you are in the UAE...what is the typical ambient temp you are wheeling in?

OK...so I see it is triple digit and running the A/C.

Do you have additional electric fans beyond the main viscous fan?

Try hooking up a couple of 10 - 12" high CFM electirc fans in front of the rad.
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Old June 19th, 2010, 04:56 AM
Cmikefly
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William Challancin
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Angry New head gaskets / stalled won't start

Ok I’m really at my wits end with this truck. I replaced the head gaskets and bolted everything up yesterday morning. The truck started up no drama (with a little black smoke) and Idled perfectly. When I went for a test drive the engine ran great ..except it is still overheating…

After a mile or so the black smoke was gone and everything seemed the same as before, good oil pressure, temp around 210, and no abnormal sounds. As I was slowly driving off road the truck died and would not start again. I found the 30 amp under hood “chassis’ fuse blown but replacing had no effect and I had to get a tow truck home…….

So I have 2 problems:

1) Truck won’t start

2) If and when it does start again it is still running hot


I don’t know what to do next. When I get it running again I have considered dropping an brand new 4.6 in but I just can see replacing an engine as a form of trouble shooting, just to find the 4.6 overheating as well.

Help and advice please
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  #7  
Old June 19th, 2010, 05:48 AM
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Assuming you're using parts that are somewhat close to factory spec, there's two things to check:

1. The cooling system.

Are you losing any coolant while you drive?

2. The engine oil.

Is your engine oil low?

Ambient temperature (up to a habitable temperatures) should rarely make a difference unless the car is stationary or turbocharged. Additional fans will provide few benefits once the car is moving.
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  #8  
Old June 19th, 2010, 07:37 AM
Cmikefly
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William Challancin
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The cooling system is, in my opinion, better than new. I have a new Ron Davis radiator, clutch less flex fan, and the AC electric fan is always on. Chris from RPI is sure it is a problem with the block..

No water in the oil and as mentioned the heads, head gaskets, and cylinders looked perfect.

It’s hard to tell if I’m loosing coolant because once I reach the normal 210F it is overflowing the Alisport expansion tank.
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  #9  
Old June 19th, 2010, 07:42 AM
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Get a 180 thermostat.
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  #10  
Old June 19th, 2010, 12:06 PM
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If his engine is running 210 degrees, how will a lower temp thermostat help? He is already overheating with the thermostat wide open. Once a thermostat is open, it is no longer having any effect unless it is defective. A 180 deg stat and a 195 stat should flow the same when fully open. Mike, if you are blowing coolant at 210 then something is wrong, you should be able to hit 240 (in theory) without boiling over if your coolant mix is right. Have you pressure tested the cooling system? I would start with that, and if you don't find any leaks, try the carbon testing kits from NAPA, never used one of those but probably should on my ailing 109 with chronic engine problems.
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  #11  
Old June 19th, 2010, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cmikefly View Post
Chris from RPI is sure it is a problem with the block..
ok...

Quote:
It’s hard to tell if I’m loosing coolant because once I reach the normal 210F it is overflowing the Alisport expansion tank.
With respect - I'm not sure what you are saying. There's two possible situations: Either you have to fill the coolant to top it up every once in a while, or you don't have to touch the coolant at all. If you have to fill the coolant every once in a while, then you have an issue.

Overflowing an expansion tank is a serious issue as coolant is basically leaving your radiator and not coming back when the engine cools down.

The correct method of operation for an expansion tank is that is a closed system in which hot coolant bypasses the radiator cap and contained completely within the expansion tank. A hose then returns coolant to the radiator when the engine cools down. At no point should coolant be leaving this system.
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  #12  
Old June 19th, 2010, 10:59 PM
Cmikefly
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William Challancin
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Yea I guess that was a bit confusing. By loosing coolant I assumed we were talking through the exhaust or into the oil. When I fill the system the expansion tank starts out about 1/3 full. As the motor heats up to 210-215 the water level rises until it is overflowing. It is not boiling over, rather the water (75% distilled water, 25% blue BMW coolant, and water wetter) is expanding and it is overflowing. If this is incorrect what could be the problem??

Any ideas what would cause the truck to die and not start again and blow the chassis fuse? Seems there is no spark.

Thanks for the help so far and please keep the ideas coming. Unless I can fix this problem I have an expensive lawn decoration.
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  #13  
Old June 20th, 2010, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cmikefly View Post
Yea I guess that was a bit confusing. By loosing coolant I assumed we were talking through the exhaust or into the oil. When I fill the system the expansion tank starts out about 1/3 full. As the motor heats up to 210-215 the water level rises until it is overflowing. It is not boiling over, rather the water (75% distilled water, 25% blue BMW coolant, and water wetter) is expanding and it is overflowing. If this is incorrect what could be the problem??
Have you changed your radiator cap recently?

This symptom sounds as if your radiator cap is not letting the cooling system pressurize normally.

edit - I read your original post and noticed that you replaced your radiator cap. Did you replace it with an aftermarket part? Is it rated to 15psi? just hitting the obvious stuff first.

BTW - in my experience, the first thing I check on a random blown fuse is an electrical short to ground.
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Old June 24th, 2010, 11:14 AM
Cmikefly
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William Challancin
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Hi guys,
Ok overheating issues aside for now ……………..after reinstalling the heads the engine started up no drama and ran fine for 10 minutes, then stalled with no warning or rough running. I can get it to start with a few shots of starting fluid and once running everything seems fine. As long as the engine is warm it starts again no problem.
I don’t have a fuel pressure tester but If I depress the plunger in the pressure test port on the rail there is pressure there and It holds overnight. As mentioned above I found the 30 amp “chassis” fuse blown the first time it stalled. Replaced with new and it has not blown again…….I have checked all electrical connections and on the engine harness with no obvious faults. I have to believe this problem is related to something I disturbed when doing the head gaskets but I cant think what else to check. Could I have disturbed the o-rings for one of the injectors? Would that cause no start issues on a 97?
I’m off to to meet my wife in Australia for a few days tomorrow, and would like to try to sort this out before I go
Thanks for the help
I forgot to mention I cut the block knock sensor wires as I could not remove the heat shield to unplug it. After cutting I realized it is of the shielded variety but I soldered everything back up including the insulating wires. Sure this has nothing to do with it but thought I would mention.
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Old July 5th, 2010, 12:00 PM
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William Challancin
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So I was able to pick up a fuel pressure tester while I was in Australia. I have about 34 psi after the pump shuts off and that will leak down to about 25 psi after an hour or so.
After 10 days away I tried to start the truck and it hit on a few cylinders on the first 2 attempts but did not start, then nothing.
In reading other threads I saw something about the Check Engine Light and noted that I do not get the CEI when I first switch the key on. And I don’t believe I ever have.
What should I check next?
Thanks
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Old July 8th, 2010, 01:28 PM
Cmikefly
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William Challancin
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still no start

I thought I would continue to post hoping that someone will recognize the symptoms…………………
Still no start. The check engine light comes on and stays on during cranking. There is fuel pressure but no pulse at the injectors and no spark. However yesterday for no particular reason the check engine light went out and the engine started up and ran normal. I drove it for about 15 miles and it would start again until I let it cool down. Today no pulse and now spark again. WTF?
I guess I'm going to have it towed to LR in Al Ain Monday afternoon if I can’t figure something out this weekend.
All the advice is appreciated.
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  #17  
Old July 8th, 2010, 10:51 PM
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david summers
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Okay, so now you DONT have spark, correct? If so, more information is needed? Have you checked to see if you have spark at the plug? Do you have spark from the coil? Also, have you checked your crankshaft position sensor?
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Old July 9th, 2010, 11:42 AM
Cmikefly
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William Challancin
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David,
I checked it at the plug. As my truck is 97 it has a coil pack not a single coil. Last night I pulled the #1 plug and it is not firing (I checked this in complete dark). If I use a little starting fluid it will hit on one or two cylinders so I guess I must have at least a weak spark in one or two cylinders.
What will stop spark and injector impulse? Crank sensor? ECU?
Thank
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  #19  
Old July 9th, 2010, 12:23 PM
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This may be a total shot in the dark but have you checked the primary ground to the battery?
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  #20  
Old July 9th, 2010, 12:55 PM
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William Challancin
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Chris,
Grounds seem fine, the truck turns over no problem and everything else works it just wont start
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