Painless 40102 Battery Isolator Q - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old May 31st, 2010, 01:42 AM
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Dave Sherwood
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Painless 40102 Battery Isolator Q

Trying to figure out what cables I need to buy to install this kit and have read through the instructions a few times....and have a few basic questions to show my complete ignorance of vehicle wiring...

Question 1:
They state to remove the main battery positive cable and run:
Isolator to main battery
Isolator to starter solenoid
Isolator to second battery

They never state what to do with the original main battery cable? Did this go to to starter solenoid and they are suggesting replacing it? Or do I reconnect it? If I replace it...why the extra wire to the starter solenoid?

Question 2:
They state to run a ground for the main battery and the second battery. Can I just run the ground from the second battery to the main battery to ground it?

Thanks

Dave
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  #2  
Old May 31st, 2010, 08:32 AM
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Bill Adams
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I'm with you. I can't figure out what this thing is supposed to accomplish other than providing an electrically switched method of connecting a back-up battery to your existing battery. If you must install this thing...

It is essentially a battery "doubler" which will tie in a second (we hope fully charged) battery into the system in case you need more amps or whatever. The danger of this is that if the primary battery is discharged, the second battery will discharge into the primary battery and also become discharged. There is no isolation of the second battery so it necessitates that both batteries be in good condition. We hope that is the case in all circumstances...especially in the cold when you need the winch. Anyway that's all it is.

So what you are doing is putting a solenoid switch into the main hot feed. Think of it as a valve. On it adds more flow, off it's just normal.

The toggle switch grounds the solenoid which opens the circuit between the two lugs. The ground for this is important and must be clean and tight. The grounds for the two batteries should be separate. Use large (like 2 gauge or fatter) marine grade cable and lugs. Cover the joint between the lug and cable cover with adhesive lined heat shrink tubing. Genunedealz.com will make a cable up for only a buck extra and is a real labor saver.

You have to probably make a new cable to go from the solenoid to the starter. You'll also have to make a cable to go from the second battery to the solenoid and a ground cable for that too. You might be able to disconnect the existing positive from the primary battery and attach it to the solenoid.

If you'd like to have a slightly different system that will keep both batteries charged in addition to providing backup capability or parallelling, let me know.
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  #3  
Old May 31st, 2010, 10:55 AM
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Charles Galpin
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I can't comment on the product, but a quick scan of this PDF makes it clear how to wire it

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...vOmStkDOnQ9cbA

hth,
charles
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  #4  
Old May 31st, 2010, 11:20 AM
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It looks like a normal solenoid setup. With the ignition on, it connects the batteries, plus has a manual switch to connect all the time or defeat the connection. This is not really the best setup.

There are two better ways.

1) Use a VSR (voltage sensing relay). This connects automatically when the main battery is charged to a reasonable level. This one is a good deal, http://www.powerstream.com/battery-isolator.htm

2) Connect the switching power for the relay to the charge light circuit so that it only closes the solenoid when the alternator is working. You can do this with the Painless kit by adjust the wiring.
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  #5  
Old May 31st, 2010, 11:56 AM
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cgalpin:

Ya...I have those...

My question #1 is...does my existing cable go to the starter solonoid, or do I need to run an additional cable? If so...the instructions never tell me what to do with the "original" positive cable...
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  #6  
Old May 31st, 2010, 12:52 PM
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Unless this is some sort of crazy set up, your original cables + and - remain in the MAIN Battery


Quote:
Originally Posted by DMSLongLake View Post
cgalpin:

Ya...I have those...

My question #1 is...does my existing cable go to the starter solonoid, or do I need to run an additional cable? If so...the instructions never tell me what to do with the "original" positive cable...
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  #7  
Old May 31st, 2010, 01:01 PM
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Yes, the stock positive cable goes to the starter solenoid. Power to everything else also comes from the starter solenoid.

The bigger question is deciding what is powered and how it is powered from the 2nd battery. There are a few ways to do it and each have their pros and cons. First you need to decide what things run off of which battery and then we can help figure out the wiring.
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  #8  
Old May 31st, 2010, 07:49 PM
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Painless states to run everything off of the main battery and keep the 2nd battery in reserve...so that is what I an leaning towards. Additionally, I am going to run an additional + wire up under the hood to a terminal or bus to hook accessories to...
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  #9  
Old May 31st, 2010, 11:10 PM
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Charles Galpin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMSLongLake View Post
cgalpin:

Ya...I have those...

My question #1 is...does my existing cable go to the starter solonoid, or do I need to run an additional cable? If so...the instructions never tell me what to do with the "original" positive cable...
Per step #4 they do recommend upgrading/replacing the main positive cable that goes to the starter solenoid (your original cable) but to be clear all you are doing is effectively tapping into that cable. Instead of

starter solenoid <--------> battery positive

You are just doing

starter solenoid <-----> isolator (same side terminal) <---> battery positive

So as some said already I think, it's just controlling the circuit for the second battery.

hth
charles
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  #10  
Old May 31st, 2010, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgalpin View Post
Per step #4 they do recommend upgrading/replacing the main positive cable that goes to the starter solenoid (your original cable) but to be clear all you are doing is effectively tapping into that cable. Instead of

starter solenoid <--------> battery positive

You are just doing

starter solenoid <-----> isolator (same side terminal) <---> battery positive

So as some said already I think, it's just controlling the circuit for the second battery.

hth
charles
Yes this all helps...thx everyone.

My original cable is already terminated with a ring-type terminal...so I will just roll with that.
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  #11  
Old June 1st, 2010, 08:41 AM
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I have this setup and either it was installed wrong or my understanding of what it does is wrong but personally I'd say don't bother with it. Both of my batteries still die despite the system if I let the truck sit for 2 weeks with out driving or run my stereo for long periods of time.
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  #12  
Old June 13th, 2010, 01:37 PM
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Completed yesterday. Only took 7 hours :-)

Used the factory tie down by trimming the ends off of the battery lift-spacers that come with the new optimas and it works great.
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  #13  
Old June 13th, 2010, 02:22 PM
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I'm looking to add a second battery for the Warn M12000 winch I will install once I get my Shipman's bumper ;-)

What do you recommend as a setup ?

I still have not bought anything, but I want to install a deep cycle battery and am considering the 200A alternator on ebay http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...#ht_1230wt_994

Suggestions are welcome !
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  #14  
Old June 13th, 2010, 06:10 PM
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Dave Sherwood
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No need for a bigger alternator.

Get yours tested at a shop...mine actually puts out 100A...but the stock alt will handle a winch NP.

I ended up with dual optima yellow-tops. There are a lot of optima haters out there, but they have served me well.

I also have the painless wiring isolator...I am happy with the install...but not enough time to tell if it was the right choice.

Also found that the stock locations and tie-downs work just fine...no need for a $200 battery tray...
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  #15  
Old June 14th, 2010, 09:21 AM
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Thank you, I'll consider keeping the alternator. I'll have it checked first.
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  #16  
Old June 14th, 2010, 09:49 AM
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Personally, I would get two new deep-cycle batteries and wire them in parallel. I have had this set up for years without any issues. My other trucks have dual batteries with isolators and that type of systems works fine too. But, the simplicity of running them in parallel, is just easier and effective. I have a husky 10 and plenty of lights, with no issues.
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  #17  
Old June 14th, 2010, 12:55 PM
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My favorite isolator is from the 12voltguy.com and there is no real need for 12v parallel to run anything on these trucks but having a second battery when you leave something on is bonus..........or if you are running Optimas and one just checks out for no reason you have a small chance that the second one will work
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  #18  
Old June 14th, 2010, 05:06 PM
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If you are just going to run in parallel, it is cheaper just to buy one large battery....
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  #19  
Old June 14th, 2010, 08:33 PM
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I went with a big-ass SeaVolt group 27 in my boat...going on 4 years and can run the ballast pumps, lights, and radio forever.

Went with the dual in the D90 cause I tend to leave the lights on :-(

------ Follow up post added June 14th, 2010 07:34 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by pushngo View Post
My favorite isolator is from the 12voltguy.com and there is no real need for 12v parallel to run anything on these trucks but having a second battery when you leave something on is bonus..........or if you are running Optimas and one just checks out for no reason you have a small chance that the second one will work

Thanks you ladies and gentlemen...pushandgo will be here all week...remember to tip your waitress
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  #20  
Old August 17th, 2010, 10:22 PM
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So I finally got pics of my install.

Dual Optima Yellowtop
Painless 40102
Maxi-Fuse on power cable running to auxillary bus under hood that runs horn and lights.
Stock battery tie-down by trimming 1.5 inches off of both sides of the plastic filler plate that comes with the batts.
Ran the switch to the panel to the left of the steering wheel

Followed the "All load on the main battery" and 2nd battery for backup only plan.

Not as clean as I would like as the PO had the relay and power for the rear work light in there and I did not feel like rewiring.

I would have also potentially moved some things around to make it perfect and shortened some cables...but turned out OK.
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