Overheating in the Middle East - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old August 13th, 2009, 11:38 AM
Cmikefly
Status: Offline
William Challancin
97 NAS D90
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Al Ain, United Arab Emirates
Posts: 50
Overheating in the Middle East

Hi All,



Yet another overheating saga………….



I live and work as a pilot in the United Arab Emirates and have with me a 97 NAS D90. The truck is primarily a recreation vehicle used for weekend camping trips into Oman or dune bashing in the UAE. I have owned the truck for about a year during which time I have been upgrading and replacing everything I can. I am in a somewhat unique position in that I have land rover parts, both guanine and aftermarket, readily available. I have searched this forum many many times for technical advice since I bought my first rover (a new TD5 110) back in 2005.



I have read every thread regarding overheating and like so many others before me I have tried throwing parts at the problem with limited success. So far I have replaced:



Thermostat-74*C (genuine)

Water Pump (genuine)

Viscous Clutch/Fan (genuine)

Fan Shroud

Radiator (genuine)

Expansion Tank Pressure Cap

Running BMW blue coolant

VDO Temp Gauge

System burped per the workshop manual



Symptoms as follow:



Driving home from work one day (115 Deg F outside A/C on full blast) and looked down to see the temp at about ¾ on the factory gauge. Stopped driving the truck until VDO guage installed. Noted truck would overheat in traffic (225) but come down a bit to around 220 at 75 MPH with the A/C on. Replaced viscous unit, fan, water pump, thermostat, and shroud. Tuck would maintain 195 at idle or in traffic with A/C off and about 205 with A/C on. With the A/C on cruising at 75MPH truck will maintain 210 to 215. Replaced radiator………………no effect.



I am unable to find a hydrocarbon test kit in the UAE but there are no obvious coolant leaks or loss. Oil is clean.



Yesterday I pulled off road into some soft sand and drove moderately for about a mile and the temp immediately jumped up to 225. Today I also tried swapping a friend’s 4 core radiator but that only dropped the temps by about 5 deg



MY QUESTIONS TO ALL OF YOU ARE:



1. It seems to me that several other people have had very similar problems but the final outcome or resolution was not posted in the thread.

2. Is there any way to determine or troubleshoot a cracked block Vs head gasket?



3. Anything I am missing or should try that has worked for others?



Thanks in advance for your input,



William

__________________
William Challancin
Al Ain, United Arab Emirates

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

1997 NAS D90
2005 110 TD5
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old August 13th, 2009, 04:05 PM
pendy's Avatar
pendy
Status: Offline
jim pendleton
89'd90
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: andover, ks usa
Posts: 2,341
Take the plugs out and look at their color. Pressureize the cooling system with the plugs out and check for water entering the combustion chamber.

You have to keep hot engine bay air from being recycled into the front of the radiator. Block the gaps around the radiator sides and top. Below the radiator up front.

The radiator capacity needs to be increased as well. But the other things need to be addressed to give you a baseline first.
__________________
legend in my own mind

Advice is only as good as the person applying it--
Don't make me give you bad advice!

Lemons or lemonaide, whatever your taste provides.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old August 13th, 2009, 04:24 PM
evilfij's Avatar
evilfij
Status: Offline
evilfij
I have never seen a rover in person
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: on the internet
Posts: 14,688
Make sure your AC electric fan works.
__________________
*not legal advice*
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old August 13th, 2009, 04:38 PM
Red90's Avatar
Red90
Status: Offline
John B.
1991 Defender 90, 200TDI
Site Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 9,250
Registry
And check that the viscous unit is locking up. Use a rolled up newspaper and try to stop it (carefully) when hot. If it stops, it is not working.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old August 13th, 2009, 04:53 PM
diesel_jim's Avatar
diesel_jim
Status: Offline
Jamie Austin
1992 110 Td5 CSW & 1989 MB G-Wagen
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Wiltshire, UK
Posts: 1,449
Cylinder liners dropped allowing the coolant to leak/get burnt?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old August 13th, 2009, 05:37 PM
BECFA's Avatar
BECFA
Status: Offline
Scott
'95D90ST
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: NC & Afghanistan
Posts: 69
William, I'm working on a roation here in Doha as a pilot too...

There are two of us over here in Qatar with some Defenders... owned a few, sold a few... Scarce for a decent one lately... Not sure if you trekked up this way yet, but if you need any help... PM me.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old August 14th, 2009, 12:21 AM
Cmikefly
Status: Offline
William Challancin
97 NAS D90
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Al Ain, United Arab Emirates
Posts: 50
Mr. Pendy I will have a look at the plugs today and I may be able to get a bore scope from work to have a better look inside. I have dropped my new radiator off at the shop to have the 4th row of tubes put in as well. I never thought about hot air being recycled……thanks for the tip.



Evilfij and Red90, I forgot to mention a few thing in y original post. The A/c fan was not originally working but is now installed with an extra relay and switch so I can run it with the A/C off. I used a A/C fan from a D2 wired backwards so it would push instead of pull. Fits perfect……just had to make minor mods to the mounting setup.

The viscous unit is new and pulls lots of air at low speed. The truck also runs cooler at low speed than at highway speeds so I think this is fine.



BECFA, if you or anyone you know in the area are looking for a decent Defender let me let me know. There always seems to be several nice low mile 97 Japanese 90s for sale in Sharjah and Dubai.







Is there anything published by Land Rover that establishes coolant temperature range for the 4.0?



Does anyone have a d90 what will maintain 190-195 in the summer, A/C while working the engine off road?



I’m not sure what the best case I can expect to achieve is. I hate to go through doing head gaskets only to find it does not help but im out of ideas………



William
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	D90-02.jpg
Views:	171
Size:	36.4 KB
ID:	21082   Click image for larger version

Name:	D90-03.jpg
Views:	175
Size:	30.5 KB
ID:	21083  

__________________
William Challancin
Al Ain, United Arab Emirates

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

1997 NAS D90
2005 110 TD5
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old August 14th, 2009, 12:52 AM
evilfij's Avatar
evilfij
Status: Offline
evilfij
I have never seen a rover in person
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: on the internet
Posts: 14,688
" used a A/C fan from a D2 wired backwards so it would push instead of pull. "

That could be your problem, fans will spin backwards, but the orientation of the blades is efficient in only one direction.
__________________
*not legal advice*
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old August 14th, 2009, 03:16 AM
Cmikefly
Status: Offline
William Challancin
97 NAS D90
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Al Ain, United Arab Emirates
Posts: 50
Ron,



I considered that……and I’m sure it is not as efficient as a pusher however the old fan was locked up tight and looked as if it had not worked in years. D2 fan still moves quite a bit of air and even with the A/C off the truck will run 200-205 at highway speeds. I will look at trying to swap the blade assembly from the original to rule this out though. Thanks for the suggestion.
__________________
William Challancin
Al Ain, United Arab Emirates

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

1997 NAS D90
2005 110 TD5
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old August 14th, 2009, 03:31 AM
evilfij's Avatar
evilfij
Status: Offline
evilfij
I have never seen a rover in person
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: on the internet
Posts: 14,688
The fan is also an aux. cooling system that kicks in at a specified temp. Keep in mind that even with the AC off, the condensor cuts a lot of the air flow through the radiator. I am not sure it is the issue, but I would rule it out before pulling the heads.
__________________
*not legal advice*
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old August 15th, 2009, 08:41 PM
JohnsD90's Avatar
JohnsD90
Status: Offline
John
74 SIII 88", 88 110, 91 110
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: CT
Posts: 2,282
Registry
This isnt right, a NAS truck in a part of the world where defenders are allowed.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old August 16th, 2009, 12:21 PM
Cmikefly
Status: Offline
William Challancin
97 NAS D90
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Al Ain, United Arab Emirates
Posts: 50
John,

I agree……I original bought a new TD5 110 as a daily driver but could not justify sinking lots of money into it as I would never be able to legitimately bring it home. Then I came across a NAS truck that had been exported new from California to Japan in 97 then imported into the UAE in 2008. I picked it up for $18,000 and intend on repatriating it to the US when in come home.


The TD5 was not great in the deep sand and steep dunes anyway but would make a great overland vehicle. Say Dubai to Cape Town………
__________________
William Challancin
Al Ain, United Arab Emirates

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

1997 NAS D90
2005 110 TD5
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old August 16th, 2009, 05:24 PM
JohnsD90's Avatar
JohnsD90
Status: Offline
John
74 SIII 88", 88 110, 91 110
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: CT
Posts: 2,282
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cmikefly
John,

I agree……I original bought a new TD5 110 as a daily driver but could not justify sinking lots of money into it as I would never be able to legitimately bring it home. Then I came across a NAS truck that had been exported new from California to Japan in 97 then imported into the UAE in 2008. I picked it up for $18,000 and intend on repatriating it to the US when in come home.


The TD5 was not great in the deep sand and steep dunes anyway but would make a great overland vehicle. Say Dubai to Cape Town………
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old August 17th, 2009, 08:24 PM
GYM's Avatar
GYM
Status: Offline
Gary
97 SW
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: West Coast
Posts: 1,062
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cmikefly




Does anyone have a d90 what will maintain 190-195 in the summer, A/C while working the engine off road?




William
It may not be quite as hot as what you experience in the UAE, but I, along with others, drive Defenders all over the CA Mojave Desert with AC on and don't have an overheating problem. (It was on the cool side this past weekend, just 106 deg...)
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old August 18th, 2009, 02:06 PM
Cmikefly
Status: Offline
William Challancin
97 NAS D90
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Al Ain, United Arab Emirates
Posts: 50
Garth,



Thanks for the information…..



I drove the truck down to Dubai over the weekend to have a rear bumper fabricated. The trip is just about 100 miles and at 75mph the temp settled in at 205 and never moved. I got the equipment to pressurize the cooling system as suggested and will remove the plugs and have a look sea this weekend and post results.
__________________
William Challancin
Al Ain, United Arab Emirates

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

1997 NAS D90
2005 110 TD5
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old August 30th, 2009, 08:33 AM
Cmikefly
Status: Offline
William Challancin
97 NAS D90
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Al Ain, United Arab Emirates
Posts: 50
Hi guys,



Well I worked on the truck a bit this last week with the following results…….

I pulled all the spark plugs out and they all look normal to me. No plug stood out as being steam cleaned but I included a photo below if anyone is an expert at reading plugs. I also pressurized the system to about 15psi and it seemed to hold pressure fine. I have had a friend in the states send me a block test kit from NAPA to finally rule out or confirm a head gasket/block problem.



In the interim I think I am going to just stop worrying about it. As I drove home from Dubai over the weekend the temperature gauge settled in at 205F and never moved for 100 miles. I decided to be a little harder on it just to see what would happen so I drove up the tallest mountain in my area. It was a 4000 foot climb in 2nd gear 3000-3500RPM for most of the climb. The temp quickly went to 218-220 and never moved above that.



What do you think?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC00406.JPG
Views:	102
Size:	40.5 KB
ID:	21241   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC00408.JPG
Views:	102
Size:	40.4 KB
ID:	21242  

__________________
William Challancin
Al Ain, United Arab Emirates

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

1997 NAS D90
2005 110 TD5
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old November 15th, 2009, 10:35 PM
Cmikefly
Status: Offline
William Challancin
97 NAS D90
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Al Ain, United Arab Emirates
Posts: 50
Smile WOW!! flex fan

Dear all



After 6 months of fighting overheating I finally cured the problem yesterday! I always suspected the fan clutch and it was replaced with an aftermarket unit then with an original LR part to no effect. Anyway after reading several other posts regarding clutch less flex fans that may fit 4.0-4.6 I thought I would give it a go.



I ordered the adapter, spacer, and fan from summit for around 100USD and the results were HUGE!!!. Where I was running 205 on the highway I now run 170. (I had cut the center out of my thermostat) I installed a new thermostat and reinstalled my Hella 4000s and headed straight for the sand dunes. Never moved above 190.



I would highly recommend this mod to anyone with a 4.0 or 4.6 and you will never worry about fan clutch issues again. The setup is no louder at idle slightly louder under hard acceleration (sounds just like the turbo on my 6.0 Powerstroke) cant hear it at highway speeds. No other modifications are required and this took me less than 10 minutes to install.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC00571.jpg
Views:	183
Size:	44.9 KB
ID:	23000   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC00570.jpg
Views:	191
Size:	35.5 KB
ID:	23001  

Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC00565.jpg
Views:	185
Size:	43.7 KB
ID:	23002  
__________________
William Challancin
Al Ain, United Arab Emirates

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

1997 NAS D90
2005 110 TD5
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old November 15th, 2009, 10:56 PM
pendy's Avatar
pendy
Status: Offline
jim pendleton
89'd90
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: andover, ks usa
Posts: 2,341
Yes, this is a good mod.

The adapter makes all the difference.
__________________
legend in my own mind

Advice is only as good as the person applying it--
Don't make me give you bad advice!

Lemons or lemonaide, whatever your taste provides.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old November 15th, 2009, 11:02 PM
Lindy's Avatar
Lindy
Status: Offline
Eric Lindstrom
1994 d-90 #1444
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 421
Would this adapter work with a 3.9 as well?
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old November 16th, 2009, 08:27 AM
Ray_G's Avatar
Ray_G
Status: Offline
Ray Gerber
54 S1 86", 96 D1 (Coyote), 06 D3
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NoVA
Posts: 2,636
Registry
William-
What were the part numbers for the fan and the spacer that you used? I assume the threaded adapter was the 852 model?
r-
Ray
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions

Tags
overheating

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Baffling Overheating Saga Trevor Tarr Defender Technical Discussions 51 May 20th, 2010 10:41 AM
!&*@! ..... still overheating! jaherring Defender Technical Discussions 63 July 13th, 2006 05:42 PM
Overheating Question PT94D90 Defender Technical Discussions 10 July 12th, 2005 04:39 PM
Timing and Overheating mkerr2112 Defender Technical Discussions 10 July 6th, 2005 09:31 AM
Overheating fun... Trigger Defender Technical Discussions 10 May 16th, 2005 10:04 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:24 AM.


Copyright