Overheated in Georgia - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old April 4th, 2014, 11:48 PM
COJ142's Avatar
COJ142
Status: Offline
Michael Giroux
1985 Defender 110 CSW RHD
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 299
Overheated in Georgia

I'm stranded in Commerce GA. Trying to figure out the overheating.

Was able to find an IR temp gun at an Autozone tonight. By the time I got the temp gun, the truck had cooled a bit. At that point, the block was at about 160F. Top radiator hose was in the mid 90s. I feel like the top and the bottom of the radiator were about the same temperature in the mid 80s. I think the radiator reading is a little misleading though because I have an electric 17 inch fan that cools everything quickly when I stop.

I don't hear any gurgling from radiator or expansion tank when I pull over after being in the red on temp gauge. And, when the engine is running, the hose from the thermostat to the top of radiator is not firm at all.

So assuming the new thermostat, new water pump and new coolant that is up to level is all correct... I'm thinking either 1) I have a radiator issue or 2) my temp gauge maybe has ground come loose.

One last thing I tend to think that it is actually overheating because it only goes in the red on uphill climbs or prolonged periods when underload where I'm trying to stay at highway speed. When I'm on straightaways or just cruising under 50 miles an hour it does not overheat. It seems that if the temp gauge was off it would always be off not only when I'm going at highway speed or going up hills.

Open to any suggestions. I'm kinda in a bind and don't want to end up blowing head gasket if this really is the correct temperature reading.

Question what are the temperature ranges I should be looking for with the IR gun and where should I be shooting it?

Thx.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old April 5th, 2014, 12:02 AM
javelinadave
Status: Offline
-
-
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: -
Posts: 5,394
You are nowhere close to overheating at 160F or even 190F. If you have a standard 88C thermostat installed that is 190F.
If the top hose isn't firm you probably have a water pump issue.
You are pretty close to Atlanta. Call Urban Land Cruisers and talk to David [404] 915-1281.
He has helped more than one stranded Defender Source member out.
What kind of motor do you have?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old April 5th, 2014, 12:11 AM
COJ142's Avatar
COJ142
Status: Offline
Michael Giroux
1985 Defender 110 CSW RHD
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 299
Overheating

Okay- that's reassuring. So anything over 190 degrees on engine block is too much?
It's a 200 TDI defender engine.

It's just bizarre that if it is a faulty temp gauge that it only acts up when engine is under load going up hills or pushing 60-65 on highway.

Tomorrow I've got about 10 hours to drive back to DC. I'm wondering what the acceptable temp range for top radiator hose, radiator and thermostat are.

Thx.

Quote:
Originally Posted by javelinadave View Post
You are nowhere close to overheating at 160F or even 190F. If you have a standard 88C thermostat installed that is 190F. What kind of motor do you have?
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old April 5th, 2014, 12:12 AM
Macker's Avatar
Macker
Status: Offline
Mack Crouch
1988 110 LS 5.3
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Carmel, CA
Posts: 708
Registry
According to his registry it's a 200tdi. If I were you, at I would install a VDO water temp gauge and matching sender. That way you can actually determine what temp it's running at in various conditions. With an engine swap being done before you bought it, it's hard to know if your gauge is even reading correctly.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old April 5th, 2014, 12:14 AM
COJ142's Avatar
COJ142
Status: Offline
Michael Giroux
1985 Defender 110 CSW RHD
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 299
Overheating

Definitely. VDO and new sender are officially on 'the list' but for now, ... gotta get home with some peace of mind. Still not 100% sure if it's just a faulty gauge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macker View Post
According to his registry it's a 200tdi. If I were you, at I would install a VDO water temp gauge and matching sender. That way you can actually determine what temp it's running at in various conditions. With an engine swap being done before you bought it, it's hard to know if your gauge is even reading correctly.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old April 5th, 2014, 12:17 AM
javelinadave
Status: Offline
-
-
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: -
Posts: 5,394
I swapped in a VDO gauge and sender right before I did my engine swap. The gauge goes to 192 degrees, the thermostat opens up and it sits at 180 degrees. Its like clockwork. The LR gauge sucked from day one and made me nervous. Thats why I switched to the VDO Vision gauge.
The soft upper hose doesn't sound good unless the thermostat is closed. Remember a 200Tdi is a cool running engine. If it has been cool out while you are driving the thermostat may very well be closed.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old April 5th, 2014, 12:22 AM
COJ142's Avatar
COJ142
Status: Offline
Michael Giroux
1985 Defender 110 CSW RHD
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 299
Overheating

Good point. The hose could be soft because the thermostat is still closed.

I hate this gauge but it did this same thing last year and I ignored it and ended up blowing coolant hoses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by javelinadave View Post
I swapped in a VDO gauge and sender right before I did my engine swap. The gauge goes to 192 degrees, the thermostat opens up and it sits at 180 degrees. Its like clockwork. The LR gauge sucked from day one and made me nervous. Thats why I switched to the VDO Vision gauge.
The soft upper hose doesn't sound good unless the thermostat is closed. Remember a 200Tdi is a cool running engine. If it has been cool out while you are driving the thermostat may very well be closed.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old April 5th, 2014, 12:28 AM
LR Max
Status: Offline
Thomason, Max
1973 Series 3 109
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 401
A couple of questions:

What is your cooling fan situation? Do you have a Viscous coupling? If so, check to see if its shot. If so, you can duct tape it and that'll get you home.

Could be T-stat. On that note, pull the cap and grab the top hose and squeeze it. If you see the level in the radiator changing, then all is well. If it isn't, then you probably have a massive air bubble somewhere.

BTW, how new is your radiator cap? They do go bad. Had that problem with my daily driver sedan. Needed a new radiator cap as the old spring wasn't allowing the system to pressurize.

Are there any other engine issues? Sometimes overheating is just one symptom.

Have you cleaned out your radiator recently? Maybe find a coin car wash and just blast the crap out of the radiator to try and get it clean.

If nothing else, maybe run the heater the entire way home. I know it'll suck since it'll be 65 tomorrow, but that might be able to get you home. Also top up your oil.

Could be a water pump issue. However every water pump I've had go bad leaks from its bottom weep hole. So check that and check to see if the fan/pulley is moving around. This all under the assumption that your water pump fan blades aren't plastic. I doubt a metal pump blade will break up.

On another note, when was the last time you had your injection pump tuned? Could you be running so lean that its causing an issue?

You have enough oil in the engine, right?

Lastly, I had extreme cooling concerns on my 109. So I taped a meat thermometer to the radiator top hose. This gives me the end all information on EXACTLY what my cooling system is doing. Will help you diagnose if you are having a gauge problem or a legit problem.

If all else fails, Monday give The Shop in Norcross a call. Great people. They will be able to help.

Sorry for my ramblings. Just trying to throw out as much crap so you can hopefully sift through it and pick out something that will help you.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old April 5th, 2014, 12:38 AM
COJ142's Avatar
COJ142
Status: Offline
Michael Giroux
1985 Defender 110 CSW RHD
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 299
Overheating

Thx.
Not sure about VS. I thought that was a drive train/diff thing.
I'll need to research that a bit.

T-stat is new, but I guess it's possible. I'll check for air bubbles and the radiator cap.

No other engine issues that I'm aware of. I'll also clean radiator in morning and see if there's anything. And I'll have to chase down some of those other items. Thx again!


Quote:
Originally Posted by LR Max View Post
A couple of questions:

What is your cooling fan situation? Do you have a Viscous coupling? If so, check to see if its shot. If so, you can duct tape it and that'll get you home.

Could be T-stat. On that note, pull the cap and grab the top hose and squeeze it. If you see the level in the radiator changing, then all is well. If it isn't, then you probably have a massive air bubble somewhere.

BTW, how new is your radiator cap? They do go bad. Had that problem with my daily driver sedan. Needed a new radiator cap as the old spring wasn't allowing the system to pressurize.

Are there any other engine issues? Sometimes overheating is just one symptom.

Have you cleaned out your radiator recently? Maybe find a coin car wash and just blast the crap out of the radiator to try and get it clean.

If nothing else, maybe run the heater the entire way home. I know it'll suck since it'll be 65 tomorrow, but that might be able to get you home. Also top up your oil.

Could be a water pump issue. However every water pump I've had go bad leaks from its bottom weep hole. So check that and check to see if the fan/pulley is moving around. This all under the assumption that your water pump fan blades aren't plastic. I doubt a metal pump blade will break up.

On another note, when was the last time you had your injection pump tuned? Could you be running so lean that its causing an issue?

You have enough oil in the engine, right?

Lastly, I had extreme cooling concerns on my 109. So I taped a meat thermometer to the radiator top hose. This gives me the end all information on EXACTLY what my cooling system is doing. Will help you diagnose if you are having a gauge problem or a legit problem.

If all else fails, Monday give The Shop in Norcross a call. Great people. They will be able to help.

Sorry for my ramblings. Just trying to throw out as much crap so you can hopefully sift through it and pick out something that will help you.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old April 5th, 2014, 12:43 AM
LR Max
Status: Offline
Thomason, Max
1973 Series 3 109
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 401
If your fan is directly bolted to the pulley, then it doesn't have one. However if your fan looks like what is on V8 discos, etc, then it probably does. Either way, just grab the fan and apply forward/backward (toward and away from the bulkhead) and see if it moves. If it does or you can feel any lack of integrity, that'll give you a good starting point.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old April 5th, 2014, 12:46 AM
COJ142's Avatar
COJ142
Status: Offline
Michael Giroux
1985 Defender 110 CSW RHD
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 299
Overheating

Okay- I got you now. I have a 17" CFS electric system installed. It was converted to a 14" Kenlowe by previous owner but I just switched into this, as I was having trouble overheating. Here we are again!



Quote:
Originally Posted by LR Max View Post
If your fan is directly bolted to the pulley, then it doesn't have one. However if your fan looks like what is on V8 discos, etc, then it probably does. Either way, just grab the fan and apply forward/backward (toward and away from the bulkhead) and see if it moves. If it does or you can feel any lack of integrity, that'll give you a good starting point.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old April 5th, 2014, 12:53 AM
LR Max
Status: Offline
Thomason, Max
1973 Series 3 109
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 401
The fan is turning on, correct?

How old is the radiator? I kinda get the feeling that you haven't replaced it. If so, I suspect it needs to be taken to a radiator shop and worked over.

As a temp fix, you could try traveling at night or wait until Sunday to drive home. It'll be cooler and raining. Both will lower the ambient temp and help with keeping your engine cool.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old April 5th, 2014, 07:10 AM
COJ142's Avatar
COJ142
Status: Offline
Michael Giroux
1985 Defender 110 CSW RHD
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 299
Overheating

It was replaced in 2003 by PO but not sure it was a new replacement or a used. I'm hoping a new radiator will end this ongoing saga. Maybe today I'll be able to pinpoint whether it's the gauge or not.

I'm going to go check radiator now, examine for visible obstructions, wash it out, turn on the heat and let the good times roll!

Quote:
Originally Posted by LR Max View Post
The fan is turning on, correct?

How old is the radiator? I kinda get the feeling that you haven't replaced it. If so, I suspect it needs to be taken to a radiator shop and worked over.

As a temp fix, you could try traveling at night or wait until Sunday to drive home. It'll be cooler and raining. Both will lower the ambient temp and help with keeping your engine cool.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old April 5th, 2014, 08:59 AM
Uncle Douglas's Avatar
Uncle Douglas
Status: Offline
Doug Crowther
A defender in every driveway-motto
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Gods Country- Central Virginia
Posts: 11,831
Registry
You indicate the only time temp spikes is when you floor it on the highway.

I'm going to assume you do not have an egt gauge. Have you messed with the injection pump @ all ?

What you describe sounds exactly like what happens when a turbo diesel has had the fueling turned up. If you have no way of gauging this and don't back out of the throttle you are starting to approach temps where you start to erode the aluminum from the head and pistons. If your fueling was turned up by a former owner, even with your cooling system in top condition it will be possible to overheat the truck if you do not back out of the throttle.

I have also seen trucks converted to tdi where the 1.6 tcase is left in the truck and the truck will overheat if pushed to run 60+ mph. Tdi's don't do well with 1.6 tcases unless offset by tall tires.

Neither of these may apply to your situation but if they do the answer to both is just to go slower. Hopefully a quick flush of the radiator solves your problem. You should need no fan @ highway speeds.
__________________
Good judgement comes from experience,experience comes from bad judgement.

Dividing Creek Imports
Worldwide Vehicle Shipment and Importation Service
Restoration & Modification work


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

410.693.1391


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old April 5th, 2014, 07:19 PM
COJ142's Avatar
COJ142
Status: Offline
Michael Giroux
1985 Defender 110 CSW RHD
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 299
Overheating

Uncle Douglas- you have given me some hope!

What you're describing sounds like my problem. I kept off the gas today and cruised home with no overheating whatsoever. BTW- the radiator does look new, so I'll have to check records on that. Cooling system is fully operational after checking with temp gun today.

To Uncle Dougs question, I believe the injection pump was messed with when I had my AC kit installed last summer. The truck NEVER overheated before then. So, naturally, we started down the path of thinking the AC was somehow causing it. And, as I've said, it only overheats now when I'm flooring it up a hill/highway.

More interesting clues ... I was just at Urban Landrover for some work and I believe they also turned the fuel up more to get more HP or something. They also adjusted valves and timing a bit.

The question is, is something I can reverse myself? Easy to do for novice?

Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Douglas View Post
You indicate the only time temp spikes is when you floor it on the highway.

I'm going to assume you do not have an egt gauge. Have you messed with the injection pump @ all ?

What you describe sounds exactly like what happens when a turbo diesel has had the fueling turned up. If you have no way of gauging this and don't back out of the throttle you are starting to approach temps where you start to erode the aluminum from the head and pistons. If your fueling was turned up by a former owner, even with your cooling system in top condition it will be possible to overheat the truck if you do not back out of the throttle.

I have also seen trucks converted to tdi where the 1.6 tcase is left in the truck and the truck will overheat if pushed to run 60+ mph. Tdi's don't do well with 1.6 tcases unless offset by tall tires.

Neither of these may apply to your situation but if they do the answer to both is just to go slower. Hopefully a quick flush of the radiator solves your problem. You should need no fan @ highway speeds.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old April 6th, 2014, 08:48 AM
Uncle Douglas's Avatar
Uncle Douglas
Status: Offline
Doug Crowther
A defender in every driveway-motto
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Gods Country- Central Virginia
Posts: 11,831
Registry
Adding a/c certainly effects cooling. The condensor blocks airflow to the radiator.

Do you have a tach or pyrometer ? I would guess your issue is a gearing one. When I say mashing the gas erodes the aluminum- it melts your engine internals because you are increasing the intensity of the explosion happening in the cylinder. You have to be aware of egt temps on a turbo diesel-regardless of who's diesel it is.

Find out what ratio your transfer case is and get a VDO Vision series pyrometer gauge and thermo-couple. When the gauge gets to 1250 take your foot off the pedal for a moment or two- it takes only a couple of revolutions of the engine for temps to drop a lot. No one should ever drive a truck with the fueling turned up without a pyrometer.
__________________
Good judgement comes from experience,experience comes from bad judgement.

Dividing Creek Imports
Worldwide Vehicle Shipment and Importation Service
Restoration & Modification work


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

410.693.1391


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old April 8th, 2014, 07:50 AM
LR Max
Status: Offline
Thomason, Max
1973 Series 3 109
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 401
Find a local shop that services the Isuzu diesel cab over landscape trucks. They will be able to get your TDI tuned properly because that is all they do all day.

That is what my friend did. His 300 runs like a charm.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old April 8th, 2014, 09:05 AM
COJ142's Avatar
COJ142
Status: Offline
Michael Giroux
1985 Defender 110 CSW RHD
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 299
Fuel Adjustment

Max- Thx. I do need to find someone who can tune this beast properly now.

Uncle Doug. Any suggestions for someone within an hour of DC?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old April 8th, 2014, 09:49 AM
Overlander's Avatar
Overlander
Status: Offline
mark kellgren
in between D's in an 04 D2
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 6,531
Registry
touching the fuel screw without a pyrometer is the devil's work. I seriously doubt Urban would have done that. get a proper vdo temp and egt installed asap.

with engine idling, take the cap off your expansion tank. if you can see a strong bubbleless current of coolant flowing into the tank from below, your water pump is likely in good condition.

and check your temp gauge ground. yes, when they get loose, they go hot. they measure the ohms differential between the sender ground and chassis ground.
__________________
Mark Kellgren
KM4BOR

ISIL and al qaeda can go F*ck themselves...
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old May 6th, 2014, 11:43 PM
COJ142's Avatar
COJ142
Status: Offline
Michael Giroux
1985 Defender 110 CSW RHD
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 299
EGT Gauge

Uncle Doug-

Not sure if you've recv'd my pm's, but I have the VDO pyrometer and am ready to roll with dialing the fuel injection pump in. Let me know what/when that might work for you.

As I had mentioned, we could do it when you're over this way, or I could come to you. Whatever makes sense.

Thanks

michael.giroux@me.com
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New offroad shop in North Georgia shawnpalmer Misc. Chit-Chat 3 June 6th, 2007 10:21 PM
mechanic in Atlanta, georgia robert moseley Defender Technical Discussions 5 October 31st, 2005 09:52 AM
Owners / Members In Georgia Kimos Defender Technical Discussions 0 November 30th, 2004 12:06 PM
Vehicle Registration Costs - Georgia ronward Misc. Chit-Chat 8 September 22nd, 2004 09:16 AM
SoLaRoS Rally (Nov. 1999) - Georgia, USA chrisvonc Trip & Trail Reports 0 June 18th, 2004 06:43 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:17 AM.


Copyright