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  #21  
Old July 3rd, 2014, 12:51 PM
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Michael Giroux
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Really could use some help here.

A brief update.

- Installed new VDO Temp Gauge. It appears the old gauge WAS working because the new gauge is now showing it's overheating.

- Installed EGT to see if it's an injection pump issue. It runs comfortable at 850 and if I really get on it, 1100. I believe those numbers are acceptable. Please let me know if they're not.

Yesterday, while going uphill on prolonged acceleration, the water temp hit 220 F. That seems HIGH to me. I'm assuming this is an unacceptable temp. During the incident, the EGT didn't go above 1100, but was generally at 1050-1000.

SO....

I have a new electric fan. A new temp gauge that is reading true. A pyrometer telling me, the injection pump has got a decent fuel ratio. So, am i back to the radiator? The radiator appears to be in excellent condition and seems to be cooling from my infrared temp gun samplings. My mechanic also thinks the radiator is working fine. Very frustrated.

I was hoping to get Uncle Doug's eagle eyes on it, but that hasn't happened yet. If anyone has any ideas, I'm all ears!

Thx.
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  #22  
Old July 3rd, 2014, 01:01 PM
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If you backed off of the pedal and didn't do the speed limit uphill does it still run that hot? If it only happens uphill with your engine floored I think you have reached the edge of your engines envelope. In that case, slow down a bit and all will be well.
As a side not, crawl under your truck and look at the placard on your transfer case as to its gearing. What does it say?
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  #23  
Old July 3rd, 2014, 01:02 PM
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Michael Giroux
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I'm just re-reading the posts from the past, and stumbled upon Uncle Doug's recommendation to check the transfer case. I'm going to do that now. I'm doubtful that's the culprit because the thing ran nice and cold until last summer when we installed the AC kit. It was literally the next day when all of this overheating began. But ... I'm going to check just in case.

------ Follow up post added July 3rd, 2014 01:04 PM ------

Thx Dave. Will do. Heading out to check on t-case now.

I hear you on maybe it's just reaching the max for the engine, but what confuses me is that max didn't exist before last summer. I could under load, charge a hill and keep highway speeds without even the slightest change in the temp gauge.
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  #24  
Old July 3rd, 2014, 01:05 PM
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I asked about transfer case to determine what kind of rpm's you are turning. A 1.6 will burn that engine up if you aren't running tall tires. If you have a/c running with a little pusher fan and a radiator that your mechanic thinks is fine then the fan shroud and fan clutch are the next two things to check. These engines run cold so something is wrong.
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  #25  
Old July 3rd, 2014, 01:42 PM
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mark kellgren
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My bet is the radiator has a partial clog. the fact that it only runs hot when at high speed/load and that the temp of the upper and lower hose is about the same suggests to me that some of the veins are clogged and you're getting less than 100% effect. Been through the whole shabang of working through cooling issues on my 2.8. Just because it looks good on the outside doesn't mean it's not clogged.
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  #26  
Old July 3rd, 2014, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlander View Post
My bet is the radiator has a partial clog. the fact that it only runs hot when at high speed/load and that the temp of the upper and lower hose is about the same suggests to me that some of the veins are clogged and you're getting less than 100% effect. Been through the whole shabang of working through cooling issues on my 2.8. Just because it looks good on the outside doesn't mean it's not clogged.

I have hose clamped a piece of inner tube with the valve portion to a lower radiator elbow, filled it with water and then hit it with a blast of compressed air. Its amazing the crap that comes out the top.
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  #27  
Old July 3rd, 2014, 02:13 PM
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Radiator is highly unlikely.
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  #28  
Old July 3rd, 2014, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
Radiator is highly unlikely.
you know his truck ?
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  #29  
Old July 3rd, 2014, 02:49 PM
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Unfortunately, I don't know his truck, but it is unlikely that a clogged radiator would keep an engine cool while idling or even just driving around. I could be wrong, but it sounds unlikely. That's not to say there isn't junk in the radiator, but I personally don't think that's causing the overheating, especially if it only overheats at WOT for extended periods of time.

What's also suspicious to me is the following, especially in light of the OP and his mechanic saying that the radiator is "working fine":

"Yesterday, while going uphill on prolonged acceleration, the water temp hit 220 F. That seems HIGH to me. I'm assuming this is an unacceptable temp. During the incident, the EGT didn't go above 1100, but was generally at 1050-1000."

At 220 degrees, the radiator should be burning hot, the top radiator hose and bottom hose together should both be too hot to touch. This could be verified by the OP.

My guess is that there is some kind of HG leak at WOT.
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  #30  
Old July 3rd, 2014, 03:11 PM
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For the record, I said "partially clogged", not fully clogged. if he has a head gasket leak that effects cooling, he would be losing coolant without any external evidence of it. I doubt a HG issue since he hasn't reported that.
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  #31  
Old July 3rd, 2014, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
Unfortunately, I don't know his truck, but it is unlikely that a clogged radiator would keep an engine cool while idling or even just driving around. I could be wrong, but it sounds unlikely. That's not to say there isn't junk in the radiator, but I personally don't think that's causing the overheating, especially if it only overheats at WOT for extended periods of time.

What's also suspicious to me is the following, especially in light of the OP and his mechanic saying that the radiator is "working fine":

"Yesterday, while going uphill on prolonged acceleration, the water temp hit 220 F. That seems HIGH to me. I'm assuming this is an unacceptable temp. During the incident, the EGT didn't go above 1100, but was generally at 1050-1000."

At 220 degrees, the radiator should be burning hot, the top radiator hose and bottom hose together should both be too hot to touch. This could be verified by the OP.

My guess is that there is some kind of HG leak at WOT.
When applying conventional/general wisdom perhaps. Although the fact that he says the issue started immediately upon adding a/c has me thinking otherwise.

On the contrary, given model specific knowledge, I am assuming the problem is his radiator. Tdi radiators have a baffle plate half way down the lh tank. When run @ high rpm (which is why I keep asking what his damn tcase ratio is) the coolant doesn't fully circulate through the radiator and doesn't get much cooling effect.

The "tropical" modification for a tdi raditor is to reduce the size of the hole in this baffle plate which reduces the coolant "bypass" effect and forces the coolant to fully circulate and thus cool. Tony Brooks had this same problem years ago because he had a 1.6 tcase. He spent thousands on a custom radiator and while waiting for it switched to a 1.2 tcase. When he sold the truck like Tony always does it came to me for a/c install and external cage. In order to install a/c I had to remove the custom stuff and go back to stock. The truck ran cool due to the lower rpm allowing full circulation.

Here's an article on the subject to bring folks up to speed on how these are designed differently and the modification that would likely have him running below 200 degree's.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130...pical-mod.html
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  #32  
Old July 3rd, 2014, 05:18 PM
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Mike Hammond
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
Unfortunately, I don't know his truck, but it is unlikely that a clogged radiator would keep an engine cool while idling or even just driving around. I could be wrong, but it sounds unlikely. That's not to say there isn't junk in the radiator, but I personally don't think that's causing the overheating, especially if it only overheats at WOT for extended periods of time.

What's also suspicious to me is the following, especially in light of the OP and his mechanic saying that the radiator is "working fine":

"Yesterday, while going uphill on prolonged acceleration, the water temp hit 220 F. That seems HIGH to me. I'm assuming this is an unacceptable temp. During the incident, the EGT didn't go above 1100, but was generally at 1050-1000."

At 220 degrees, the radiator should be burning hot, the top radiator hose and bottom hose together should both be too hot to touch. This could be verified by the OP.

My guess is that there is some kind of HG leak at WOT.
It did on your truck when I owned it Ed, at motorway speed the temp would slowly creep up an up. The radiator was furred up and although the flow seemed good the heat transfer couldn't have been all it should have been. I bit the bullet and stuck a new radiator in. Problem went away immediately.
The top hose should be pretty hot and the bottom hose appreciably cooler.
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  #33  
Old July 3rd, 2014, 05:59 PM
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fascinating guys...I appreciate the education. Mike - I appreciate the new radiator!
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  #34  
Old July 3rd, 2014, 06:00 PM
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Jeff Labbé
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HG sometimes only push air out and doesn't suck in coolant. Run your engine at temp and open (slowly) the coolant reserve. If the collant level gets higher as the engine idles then your HG is broken. There's also a product (can remember the name) that you can use to help you diagnose an HG problem. Just had this funky liquid to your coolant and it will color the coolant to a certain color (blue or purple if I can recall) if traces of CO2 is to be found in the coolant. Might just help confirming your problem.

It's totally normal that temps get higher as you push your engine to work hard (i.e. Going uphill) up to a certain point. But if you are doing WOT all the way up, it could be the case. Check your cooling fan clutch!

T-case (1.6) would get higher rpms as you get to 65-70mph. But you had no problems before. I ran mine (110) with 1.6 and maintening 65mph for hours without any problems (except my ears & poor mileage to gallons).

I don't have any experience with A/C but, can it block air needed to you coolant radiator? Maybe it's the final stage to overheating?
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  #35  
Old July 3rd, 2014, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by CDNRover View Post
HG sometimes only push air out and doesn't suck in coolant. Run your engine at temp and open (slowly) the coolant reserve. If the collant level gets higher as the engine idles then your HG is broken.
But this wouldn't test if the HG only leaks at WOT, right? (I guess WOT isn't quite the right term since this is a diesel...maybe "full accelerator")
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  #36  
Old July 3rd, 2014, 08:10 PM
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Michael Giroux
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Dave- thanks! I tried to locate the placard and couldn't find it. Is it obvious where it should be?

Doug- thanks too for your help on this! Yes, I was running AC at the time it overheated. I had just got it on the highway for the first time after installing temp gauge and the EGT gauge. I wanted to push it a little to see if it would overheat. It only took about 7-10 miles of highway before I hit those numbers I posted.

I don't have a tach, so not sure of rpms. I'm having a hard time buying into the transfer case being the limiting factor, because it used to cruise so well on the highway without overheating before the AC install.

My next move is to confirm transfer case isn't the 1.6 and to have radiator checked out. The rad looks brand new but the infrared temp gun is showing the top and bottom of radiator isn't much of a difference, so maybe there is a clog or something.

Hoping I'm on home stretch with this issue. I'm supposed to head to Charlottesville on Monday.

BTW- anyone know of a good radiator shop you could recommend in DC/Rockville/NOVA area?
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  #37  
Old July 3rd, 2014, 08:14 PM
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A brand new one is like $300. I wouldn't screw around with getting one rebuilt.
The transfer case gearing label should be on the rear of the transfer case.
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  #38  
Old July 3rd, 2014, 11:37 PM
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Sonoros, head gasket is either bad or good. If it leaks it always will; idle or "full acceleration". The temperature might not get high at idle but worth a try?
But since it "appears" only after the a/c installation, I doubt it. Is the temp sensor acting crazy? Could it be a bad gauge? Never the less, since the a/c was installed it started overheating. Couldn't it be only related to the a/c?

What condition is the water pump? Is the reservoir cap keeping the pressure? Is it possible that the handbrake is dragging?

Is the a/c radiator big enough to block the airflow to the coolant one?

Lotsa possibility and bloody hard to tell...

From my point of view ; no problem before a/c? That's a good hint, isn't it?
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  #39  
Old July 3rd, 2014, 11:39 PM
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There are a number of radiator repair and rebuild shops in the area bit you are gonna pay 300-400 so just grab a brand new one as it will be quicker as well.

Interesting to hear about the issue....are you 100% sure about not having a a air bubble in it? A while back this was my issue. I put it on stands ran the engine and opened the expansion tank. Big burp and all was good.
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  #40  
Old July 4th, 2014, 09:24 AM
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Michael Giroux
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Thanks everyone for the insights. I'm learning a lot in the process.

Transfer case code is 22D so 1.410. So I think that's eliminated.

I may be at the point of getting a new radiator but really wanted to test it first to know for sure.

Jonesy- thanks for help. I'm not 100% sure there's no air in system. I don't have stands. Is there another way to de-burp it?

CdnRover- HG is good. Water pump is new. Cap seems A-okay. Had handbrake redone in last 6 months. AC fan is def taking up space in front of radiator but I imagine the other 200TDIs w AC that are out there not overheating are a testament that the AC fan and radiator can coexist.

I'm going to find out what it costs to test/flush the radiator. If it's over $100 I might just buy a new one
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