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  #21  
Old May 12th, 2008, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanS
Matt - Here are the numbers I ran a while back for an R380 with a 26% OD:
Randy - Does the new LR 6-speed bolt directly to the LT230? What engine(s) is it used with? It's definitely intriguing, but may not be cost effective until some start hitting the junkyards.
It is on the current model Defenders. 1.22:1 LT230 and the Ford 2.4 liter diesel from the Transit van. The gearbox is a Getrag unit that is also used on the Transits. I assume the engine end is completely different.

Quote:
Transmission GFT MT-82 six speed manual

(high/low) : 1 Overall Gearing
1st 5.443 23.334/62.988
2nd 2.839 12.171/32.854
3rd 1.721 7.378/19.916
4th 1.223 5.243/14.153
5th 1.000 4.287/11.572
6th 0.742 3.181/8.587
Reverse 4.935 21.156/57.109
Final drive ratio : 1 3.540
High range transfer box ratio 1.211
Low range transfer box ratio 3.269
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  #22  
Old May 12th, 2008, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanS
Matt - Here are the numbers I ran a while back for an R380 with a 26% OD:

So the only real gear splitting you get is in 1st and 2nd where you really don't need it..
Ryan, Thanks for the real math.

The owner was actually looking for more ratio's in the lower gears, with the emphasis being more available and not the actual gearing (just the right thing for every occaision) . I just hoped to make it work on the highway as well. The guy is just a little eccentric.
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  #23  
Old May 14th, 2008, 03:06 PM
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I didn't realize the 6-speed had a granny 1st. Doesn't make it as tempting to me as before. I've been that route with an NV4500, and I'd much rather have 6 more tightly spaced gears or more OD. The search continues...
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  #24  
Old May 14th, 2008, 04:37 PM
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What the ratios of the transmission in the Ford Ranger? 2.8l Wonder if they ever went 6 spd before it phased out. Or if the later model might be a possibility.

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  #25  
Old May 14th, 2008, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pendy
What the ratios of the transmission in the Ford Ranger? 2.8l Wonder if they ever went 6 spd before it phased out. Or if the later model might be a possibility.

JP
That's a good question. I wonder if Santiago knows since he's in South America.

Found this for Aussie Rangers which are supposedly the same as ROW Rangers:

http://www.ford.com.au/servlet/Conte...Page&c=DFYPage

All 5-speeds, but they do have a 5-speed auto
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  #26  
Old May 14th, 2008, 10:47 PM
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I thought the Ford version of the 2.8 had a different flywheel housing.
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  #27  
Old May 15th, 2008, 12:26 PM
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Ashcroft told me that the 6 spd rover trans does not have a lower 6th.. its the same as the 5th in the 5 speed... they just have a lower granny gear..1st. thats stupid.. I can pull a house down with my truck in first as it is.. I wish someone had a roverdrive ont his site so we can compare..
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  #28  
Old May 15th, 2008, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimC
I thought the Ford version of the 2.8 had a different flywheel housing.
Its bolt on.
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  #29  
Old May 15th, 2008, 01:48 PM
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Right, but doesnt that imply that either a LT230 wont bolt to a ford trans or that a LR bellhousing wont bolt to a ford flywheel housing?
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  #30  
Old May 15th, 2008, 01:54 PM
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I understand Ford Rangers built in South America (Argentina or Barzil, not sure were they were built) with 2.8 engines never came with a 6 speed gear box, just 5 speeds.

Cheers,
Santiago
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  #31  
Old May 15th, 2008, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDI Guy
Ashcroft told me that the 6 spd rover trans does not have a lower 6th.. its the same as the 5th in the 5 speed... they just have a lower granny gear..1st. thats stupid.. I can pull a house down with my truck in first as it is.. I wish someone had a roverdrive ont his site so we can compare..
I gave the ratios above...

It does have a HIGHER 6th.... It also uses the 1.22:1 t. case instead of the 1.41... This combines to give a higher geared top gear.

2006 Defender...
0.77:1 Fifth Gear, 1.41:1 transfer case, 3.54:1 axle ratio = 3.84:1 overall reduction

2007 Defender
0.74:1 6th gear, 1.21:1 t. case, 3.54:1 axle = 3.17:1 overall

3.84 / 3.17 = 1.21 so 21% higher top gear PLUS a 45% lower 1st gear low range.....
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  #32  
Old May 15th, 2008, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDI Guy
Ashcroft told me that the 6 spd rover trans does not have a lower 6th.. its the same as the 5th in the 5 speed... they just have a lower granny gear..1st. thats stupid.. I can pull a house down with my truck in first as it is.. I wish someone had a roverdrive ont his site so we can compare..
Hi, red90's right, the 5th is about the same as 6th but the 6 speed uses the 1.211 LT230 which makes it higher overall,

on the TD5's we sell lots of the 1.2 kits which work very well but the criticism is that 1st is too high when setting off with a trailer, the 6 speed fixes this with the granny 1st,
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  #33  
Old May 15th, 2008, 05:32 PM
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There we go. Thanks Dave.....
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  #34  
Old May 15th, 2008, 07:57 PM
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I wonder if the temperature issue on the GKN could be addressed changing the oil spec...
The R380 not long ago changed the oil spec from Dexron III (ATF) to MTF94 (MTF) (higher viscosity) and its temperature reduction was noticeable...
Could something similar happen with the GKN which is originally specd for using the low viscosity ATF??

Pat
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  #35  
Old May 16th, 2008, 03:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat
I wonder if the temperature issue on the GKN could be addressed changing the oil spec...
The R380 not long ago changed the oil spec from Dexron III (ATF) to MTF94 (MTF) (higher viscosity) and its temperature reduction was noticeable...
Could something similar happen with the GKN which is originally specd for using the low viscosity ATF??

Pat

the usual problems with the GKN overdrives were electrical issues, leaks and sometimes the cone clutch failed,

you won't fix these with a different oil,

Dave
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  #36  
Old May 16th, 2008, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kev Baldwin
110 will have the 1.4 T-case gearing.

GKN has stopped manufacture of its Overdrive because of the number of problems it had with the unit. You'll probably be able to pick one up from somewhere, but these will still suffer the traditional GKN failings. Speed sensor failure, oil seal failure and oil transfer when hot. There are users of the GKN device that have had no problems, but there are plenty more who have. For the asking price, the GKN unit is an expensive gamble. For that sort of money I'd expect a quality piece of kit. The GKN unit isn't! The basic design is something like 40 years old!

The Roverdrive is fully mechanical. Never seen one in the UK so no idea whether it's any good or not. The guys here will probably have a better knowledge of the unit.

Pal of mine had two GKN's fail. He now runs a 1.2 Discovery transfer box in his 110. Since then he's never looked back. Crucially for you, the one thing the GKN doesn't like is being run for long period of time where it can get hot. My friends GKN always failed on long runs from the UK to Africa.

The Discovery gearing is cheaper, more reliable and the 2.8 will pull the gearing all day long without any problem. For your intended use, forget the Overdrive and go with the Discovery transfer box gearing.
All becomes clear GKN overdrives can't do what it says on the packedt!
Mine had all the faults listed, I think, after a run to Morocco and terminally failed just North of Madrid, jumping in and out of gear randomly. The Box had filled with EP90 and was too hot to touch for about 1/2 hour. Luckily I had the transfer gear with me and swapped it out by the side of the road
I have a 1.22 transfer box on my 90 and it's the best thing I've done to it...well apart from the long travel suspension, tweaking the fuel a little, Simex copy tryes......
Seriously though the 1.22 transfer box is the way to go.
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  #37  
Old May 16th, 2008, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashtrans
the usual problems with the GKN overdrives were electrical issues, leaks and sometimes the cone clutch failed,

you won't fix these with a different oil,

Dave
Dave
Please correct me if I'm wrong but I understand the GKN electrical issues mainly come from the temperature related speed sensor failure...
The cone failure could also have a direct connection to high temperatures...

My question would be; can we use some other fluid than ATF on the GKN to safely reduce the operational temperature?
In the past I've asked this to GKN "customer service" but I've never got an answer from them...


Pat
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  #38  
Old May 16th, 2008, 07:47 PM
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Mike,
Does your 90 have special power/torque figures sor is it just a plain 200Tdi you have under the bonnet?
Also, what tires do you use, 32 inches?

Do you have any kind of rpm/speed figures for highway speeds for your 90 with the 1.22 transfer box?

Thanks
SG
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  #39  
Old May 17th, 2008, 01:42 AM
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The 200 tdi is mostly standard, the boost is a little higher and a little more fuel than standard goes in at low rpm to get things moving. It's running on 7.50R 16 road pattern tyres probably around 31 inches high.
I'm sure you're 2.8 would pull the 1.22 transfer gears just fine.
Our 200tdi discovery is running at 3000 rpm=70mph the tyres on the 90 are about 10% bigger and the 1.22 transfer gears give you about 15% reduction in speed too, Mr Ashcroft might correct me on those last figures.
The only down side is occasionally having to drop a gear when on a long hill(but only to 4th).
I suspect the rpm is around 2700 at 70mph working back from the Discovery figures.
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  #40  
Old May 17th, 2008, 02:21 PM
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Seems that a 2.8 TGV with a 1.22 transfer should end up having very similar gearing and power and torque figures compared to a 2008 2.4 Defender.
Main difeference would be lack of granny first in the 2.8 vehicle.
Higgway cruising should be pretty similar on both vehicles.
Am I correct?
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