output shaft spline wear - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old February 3rd, 2009, 12:12 PM
ZACHASS
Status: Offline
DAVID YOUNG
1995 DEFENDER
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: MOORESTOWN NJ
Posts: 34
output shaft spline wear

I'm in the process of doing my clutch and have the trans and t/c split apart.I just noticed that the trans output shaft splines are worn 1/3 of the way.The input gear in the t/c where the shaft goes is also worn.Is this a common problem and is it hard to remove the trans output shaft?This clutch job is never ending!thanks
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old February 3rd, 2009, 12:18 PM
landrovered's Avatar
landrovered
Status: Offline
S. Smith
72 Series III 109 Diesel
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Under my truck!
Posts: 753
I am sure I have the same problem, please post the results of your experience/nightmare.
__________________
72 Series III 109 SW Diesel, 03 RR, 98 Porsche 986, 01 Porsche 986 3.6 L
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old February 3rd, 2009, 12:20 PM
LRNAD90's Avatar
LRNAD90
Status: Offline
Scott T
1995 Defender 90 ST
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,265
Registry
Extremely common unfortunately. You have to rebuild the transmission to replace the Output shaft as it is the main shaft of the transmission. So is it difficult? You decide. Would be for me, but many around here wouldn't consider it difficult at all.

Make sure you get a cross drilled input gear to replace the worn one in the transfer case, this allows more oil to the interface, and the spline section is longer, so it distrubutes the load better. Some also swear by slightly overfilling the t-case with gearoil as well, since that is the highest point in the t-case...

There are many threads on this all over the net, and here in particular, search 'spline wear'.

http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...ghlight=spline
http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...ghlight=spline
http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...ghlight=spline

Here is the Text of the Spline Wear TSB issues by Land Rover:

"Gearbox Mainshaft Spline Wear

Issue 2

24/05/96

37/02/96/US

SUBJECT:
Gearbox Mainshaft Spline Wear

MODEL:
Discovery
Discovery
Defender 90

AFFECTED VEHICLES:
LPLJ 178205 Onwards
LJ 506525 Onwards
LD 976480 Onwards


DETAIL

Some customers may complain of clonks and backlash in the transmission system. This may be due to gearbox/mainshaft spline wear. The clonk/backlash will be most apparent in stop/go traffic under overrun conditions or when maneuvering the vehicle during parking, etc. From transfer box numbers 28D460996 F (Discovery) and 22D 461124 F (Defender) all factory built LT230 transfer boxes have a revised design of input gear, featuring lengthened splines and cross drilled oil feed holes. This modification eliminates the
requirement for an oil feed disc (bulletin H415) and eliminates input gear/mainshaft spline fretting/wear. Coincident with this change, the transfer box identification number has been changed to Suffix "F".

Information only:
The new parts supercede all old parts and should be used in ALL LT230 applications during repairs.

NOTE: Do not use in conjunction with an oil feed disc, Bulletin "H415 Mainshaft Spline Wear Prevention." If a complaint of transmission clonk/backlash is made, it is likely mainshaft spline wear has occurred. The
transfer box mainshaft input gear and gearbox mainshaft must be replaced together as a pair.

ACTION REQUIRED

If a customer complains of transmission backlash/clonk refer to the
procedure below.

PARTS INFORMATION

Mainshaft/Input Gear replacement part numbers
Manual R380
FTC5087 replaces FTC4188, ratio 1:1.214,28 teeth
(Defender and Discovery)
FTC3703 - Gearbox Mainshaft (Defender and Discovery)

ZF Automatic
FTC5087 replaces FTC4188, ratio 1:1.214, 28 teeth
(Defender and Discovery)
FTC5090 replaces FTC3981 - Coupling Shaft (Defender and Discovery)

PROCEDURE





Follow procedure outlined in Workshop Manual Section 37 "Manual Gearbox", Section 41 "Transfer Box", and Section 44 "Auto Gearbox."

For ZF Automatics: When coupled to a ZF Automatic gearbox a new coupling shaft is required with extended splines. This is a factory fix for all Discovery Automatics and LT230 transfer boxes.

NOTE: If the clonk/backlash is thought to be coming from the transfer box, remove the power take off cover and bearing housing from the rear of the transfer box to inspect the input gear. Visually inspect the transfer box input gear and the gearbox output shaft if visible wear is evident, the gearbox output shaft and the ransfer box input gear will need to be replaced as a pair.

WARRANTY:

Normal warranty policy and procedures apply.

COMP.CODE:

3L9J

SRO:

37.20.88/26 - Input gear and mainshaft (manual) renew 10.50 hr.

44.20.88/26 - Input gear and coupling shaft (automatic) 7.00 hr."

Here is the Oil Thrower 'fix' TSB as well, issued before they started using the crossdrilled input gear:

"You have the oil thrower fix if there is a yellow X painted on the back of the T-case. None of the fixes can be done with an LT77s. This is the PREVIOUS fix. Mainshaft Spline Wear Prevention

29/03/96

H415

SUBJECT:
Mainshaft Spline Wear Prevention

MODEL:
Discovery - with R380 Manual Gearboxes
Defender 90

AFFECTED VEHICLES:LJ 081991 to 172377
LJ 500000 to 504330
LD 939976 to 972378


DETAIL

To prevent occurrence of mainshaft spline wear, an oil feed disc has been introduced into the LT230 transfer gearbox which can be retro-fitted to earlier vehicles providing a customer complaint of transmission backlash/clunk is not evident This disc is a preventative measure only and will not cure existing spline wear induced "clunk" without other component changes. All transfer boxes from the above VIN numbers LJ72378, LJ 504330 and LD 972378 that are fitted with a feed disc at the factory are identified with a yellow "X" painted on the power take off cover so external confirmation of repair is visible, dealers should also apply this paint identification to identify completion of repair and to prevent this work being carried out again.

NOTE: Vehicles fitted with a LT77S manual gearbox CANNOT utilize this fix. Transfer boxes from suffix "F" will be fitted with a production solution which entails additional oilways in the transfer box input gear (detailed in Bulletin 37/02/96/US). Vehicles fitted with suffix "F" gearboxes cannot be fitted with the oil feed disc.

ACTION REQUIRED

At the earliest opportunity fit the parts listed below to all R380 vehicles, providing no customer complaint of backlash/driveline clunk is evident.

PARTS INFORMATION

FTC4993 - Oil feed disc (Qty. 1)
FTC4994 - "0" ring (Qty. 1)
STC611K - Hylosil sealant (Qty. 1)

NOTE: This fix cannot be fitted to LT77 or LT77S manual gearboxes.

PROCEDURE

See Workshop Manual for removal of the P.T.O. cover and bearing plate.

1. If during fitting of the oil feed disc, advanced spline wear is noted, both the gearbox mainshaft and the transfer box input gear should be replaced (if the replacement transfer gear has oil holes into the spline, an
oil feed disc will not be required, see Bulletin 37/02/96/US).

2. Assemble "0" ring onto disc and locate disc into bearing housing ensuring cut outs are aligned and disc ID "TOP" is at the top of the disc.

3. Rebuild referring to Workshop Manual, cleaning off all traces of old sealant.

4. Paint a yellow "X" on the power take off cover.

Note: Do not rebuild with grease - if spline lubrication is required, use only transfer box oil.

NOTE: For guidance on repairs to resolve customer complaints of transmission backlash refer to Technical Bulletin 37/02/96/US.

WARRANTY:

Normal warranty policy and procedures apply

COMP.CODE:

H415

SRO:

H415 - Fit oil feed disc 0.90 hr.

NOTE: If any additional mainshaft wear is noted replace parts and claim
through normal procedures."
__________________
~Scott T.
'95 D-90 ST - AA Yellow
"If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space!"


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old February 3rd, 2009, 12:31 PM
landrovered's Avatar
landrovered
Status: Offline
S. Smith
72 Series III 109 Diesel
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Under my truck!
Posts: 753
Having just replaced the output gear and spud shaft on my RRC (took about ten mintes) I am noticing the problem in my 110. I poured through the manual and saw that the gearbox shaft goes all the way through on the manual box. Bummer, they were so smart on the ZF and so dumb on the R380.
__________________
72 Series III 109 SW Diesel, 03 RR, 98 Porsche 986, 01 Porsche 986 3.6 L
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old February 3rd, 2009, 01:25 PM
LRNAD90's Avatar
LRNAD90
Status: Offline
Scott T
1995 Defender 90 ST
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,265
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by landrovered
Having just replaced the output gear and spud shaft on my RRC (took about ten minutes) I am noticing the problem in my 110. I poured through the manual and saw that the gearbox shaft goes all the way through on the manual box. Bummer, they were so smart on the ZF and so dumb on the R380.
Iím not sure if it was smart, so much as lucky for the auto owners. I would think the only real reason they use the adapter is because it is a common auto tranny, and not an in house product like the R380, so instead of having a custom version manufactured for them they used an adapter to save parts costs, no?
__________________
~Scott T.
'95 D-90 ST - AA Yellow
"If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space!"


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old February 3rd, 2009, 03:16 PM
ZACHASS
Status: Offline
DAVID YOUNG
1995 DEFENDER
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: MOORESTOWN NJ
Posts: 34
Thanks for the info.I did not see anything about where the best place to get the right parts would be.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old February 3rd, 2009, 03:19 PM
Viton's Avatar
Viton
Status: Offline
Deaf Ember
Smart 4x4
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: La
Posts: 1,231
When I was converting my 1997 4.0 to a 300tdi w/ the Zf4HP22 autobox, I found out there are 2 different lengths for this output shaft. The older ones are a little longer (3/8 to 1/2") than the ones on the 1997.

As far as replacing it, undo the bolt on the end and pull it out. The is a rubber O ring under the head of the bolt, I guess it's a seal.

I needed mine in a hurry, so I went to the local LR dealer. Cost me a little over $100 in 2001.

Dennis
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old February 3rd, 2009, 03:32 PM
ZACHASS
Status: Offline
DAVID YOUNG
1995 DEFENDER
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: MOORESTOWN NJ
Posts: 34
The auto boxes are different than the 5 speed.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old February 3rd, 2009, 04:01 PM
landrovered's Avatar
landrovered
Status: Offline
S. Smith
72 Series III 109 Diesel
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Under my truck!
Posts: 753
Yes, the ZF has a short spud shaft that goes into the Tcase. it unbolts and can be easily changed out with the output gear. Like I said it took me a whole ten minutes. The manual boxes don't have that spud shaft, the output shaft goes all the way through the gearbox, hence you must rebuild the gearbox in order to change the output shaft.

Follow-up Post:

This is not to be confused with the output gear, the earlier types would starve for oil and exacerbate the wear problem. The newer type are cross drilled and allow oil to get into the mating between the shaft and gear. Ashcrofts (lucky 8) has the gears.
__________________
72 Series III 109 SW Diesel, 03 RR, 98 Porsche 986, 01 Porsche 986 3.6 L
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
howling trans or Transfer case? Gkase Defender Technical Discussions 18 February 8th, 2008 11:08 AM
Lt77 Output shaft replacement Hans Defender Technical Discussions 5 December 9th, 2005 04:33 PM
24 Spline Axle Shaft (Long Side) + CV Joint + Rear Housing mudrover For Sale - Parts 0 March 2nd, 2005 09:48 AM
T-Case output shaft help WhiteD90 Defender Technical Discussions 1 August 6th, 2004 10:13 AM
Auto trans output shaft extension needed JCRover4x4 Wanted 1 June 15th, 2004 10:10 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:52 AM.


Copyright