Oil overfill, consequences? - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old May 31st, 2016, 10:17 AM
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Oil overfill, consequences?

I had a new shop do an oil change for me last week while having brake pads replaced and they overfilled my 3.5 V8. I was 2 hours into my trip this weekend to VT when I pulled over for a break and noticed a trail of oil when I came to a stop. Checking the dip stick the oil was very high. I made it to and back but now my clutch slips, assuming the oil coming out of the drain has splashed about in the housing onto the plate.

I just dropped it off at the same shop and they told me they used the defender 110 capacity (not the highlighted yellow amount in the service manual I left on the seat). I don't have the oil cap numbers but I assume they referenced the 3.9 or 4.0 engine from the NAS 110s? They are going to drain and refill with the appropriate amount but am I looking at any long term issues? The oil only leaks out when hot, not at a stop once it cools, hoping the main seal is fine? Will the clutch eventually burn off the oil? Thanks
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  #2  
Old May 31st, 2016, 10:22 AM
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What type of oil did they overfill it with Brand & Weight (be sure and note if it is synthetic)?
Where was the oil leaking from specifically?
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Old May 31st, 2016, 10:27 AM
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I do not know the type, chevron havoline I think based on the sticker they put on my windshield. oil was leaking from the drain hole in the bell housing. the receipt is in the truck but it didn't specify qty or type
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Old May 31st, 2016, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by toad View Post
I do not know the type, chevron havoline I think based on the sticker they put on my windshield. oil was leaking from the drain hole in the bell housing. the receipt is in the truck but it didn't specify qty or type
Sounds like you lost the rear main seal. I doubt the clutch will fix itself.
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Old May 31st, 2016, 11:36 AM
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well great, I hope that isn't the case, either way I'm not having this shop do the work
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Old May 31st, 2016, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by toad View Post
well great, I hope that isn't the case, either way I'm not having this shop do the work
I have actually burned embedded oil out of brake shoes and have heard of old timers doing it with clutches as well.
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Old May 31st, 2016, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by JSBriggs View Post
Worse case? The crank can splash into the oil and whip it into a foamy froth. The oil pump can't build pressure and it leads to oil starvation can catistrophic failure.

-Jeff
This.

More specifically, leads to oil starvation to the bearings furthest from the oil pump (usually the cylinder(s) closest to the flywheel). They shrink up, start knocking. Then the piston decides to go be free.

Also happens when engines are operating at extreme angles.

But yes, take it back and demand them do it correctly or demand a refund. If they can't check a dipstick, I don't really know what to say.
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Old May 31st, 2016, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
I have actually burned embedded oil out of brake shoes and have heard of old timers doing it with clutches as well.
Just did this the other day. Hosed down some brake fluid contaminated rear shoes and let dry, then heated with a Mapp gas torch directly onto the shoe surface to boil out the rest of the oil...worked great rear brakes bite great again


Edit: and yes the rear main probably went or the rear block Valley gasket, both are a pain to get to
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Old May 31st, 2016, 05:23 PM
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It was 10x40 synthetic oil. They claim to not have drained any oil today and it now reads normal on the dip stick. I asked about the trails of oil and puddles whenever I stopped and they said it probably was slightly overfilled if that was the case but it is normal now. The service guy who took me out to the truck said if the clutch continues to slip they'll fix it but the owner is where the buck stops and I think he'll be a bigger pain. I'm more comfortable having someone with rover experience do it anyways so just drove away. Other than the slipping clutch its running as good as ever, I'll just rover on and see what happens in the next week or two and assess things then.

------ Follow up post added May 31st, 2016 05:25 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naplm00 View Post
Just did this the other day. Hosed down some brake fluid contaminated rear shoes and let dry, then heated with a Mapp gas torch directly onto the shoe surface to boil out the rest of the oil...worked great rear brakes bite great again


Edit: and yes the rear main probably went or the rear block Valley gasket, both are a pain to get to
I'll keep an eye on it.
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Old May 31st, 2016, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toad View Post
It was 10x40 synthetic oil. They claim to not have drained any oil today and it now reads normal on the dip stick. I asked about the trails of oil and puddles whenever I stopped and they said it probably was slightly overfilled if that was the case but it is normal now. The service guy who took me out to the truck said if the clutch continues to slip they'll fix it but the owner is where the buck stops and I think he'll be a bigger pain. I'm more comfortable having someone with rover experience do it anyways so just drove away. Other than the slipping clutch its running as good as ever, I'll just rover on and see what happens in the next week or two and assess things then.
Guess the real missing answer to the question is did overfilling with 10x40 synthetic oil cause the rear main to start leaking or is it just coincidental?

I do know for a fact that synthetic oil will leak where no oil has ever leaked before...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naplm00 View Post
Just did this the other day. Hosed down some brake fluid contaminated rear shoes and let dry, then heated with a Mapp gas torch directly onto the shoe surface to boil out the rest of the oil...worked great rear brakes bite great again.
Works great, you just boil the oil out and if you don't scorch the friction material, then they work like uncontaminated shoes.
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #11  
Old May 31st, 2016, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post

I do know for a fact that synthetic oil will leak where no oil has ever leaked before...
You know for a fact? Pretty sure that is a well documented myth.
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Old May 31st, 2016, 08:40 PM
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I don't think syn leaks more, just needless cost for 3k oil changes... IMHO... To the OP.. Your rear main seal went.. Bad timing maybe or just too much oil pressure, dunno
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Old May 31st, 2016, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by rlynch356 View Post
I don't think syn leaks more, just needless cost for 3k oil changes... IMHO... To the OP.. Your rear main seal went.. Bad timing maybe or just too much oil pressure, dunno
Synthetic definitely will find a path to leak where non-synthetic has not leaked before.
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #14  
Old June 1st, 2016, 07:12 AM
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What was the oil that had been replaced? Could be the cleansing property of the oils? Synthetic oil does have superior cleansing property which help to keep your engine cleaner right? An older motor may have seals gunked up so that they do not leak. Once you add a better cleansing oil, or better than you had, you clear away the blockages allowing the seal to show its true condition and start leaking?
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Old June 1st, 2016, 08:24 AM
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I can't see the rear main seal leaking heavily with a 1 liter overfill unless it is already worn or the block is being pressurized due to a clogged PCV system. The clutch rag is opposite of the flywheel so a large amount of oil would be needed to actually contaminate. Did you pull the wade plug to see how much oil ran out? Slight overfill will not typically kill the bearings but heavy smoking from the frothed oil going through the PCV system is typical. If you were going to loose bearings I suspect you'd already be hearing the damage. The 3.5, 3.9 and 4.0 (hell, I think all of the V8 engines) call for 5.7 liters (6 quarts). That can vary depending on the filter size used. That said, did they install a smaller filter during the change? That would cause the dipstick level to read abnormally high too.
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  #16  
Old June 1st, 2016, 08:29 AM
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Agreed. Blocked PCV system is the cause of many leaks. Could be the valve itself or any of the associated plumbing.
It's one of those parts of the engine that really appreciate being driven good distances to keep clean.
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Old June 1st, 2016, 09:01 AM
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I'm not exactly sure what oil was in there, I don't recall if my visit to overland engineering involved an oil change or not, but assuming it didn't I run 10w/40 Castrol non synthetic. I am guessing the past 2 years this is the first synthetic it has seen. In my experience with synthetic in my series the leaking was more pronounced when I made the switch, but that is a single example.

The wading plug is removed from the bell housing, this is where all the oil was draining from. The clutch is slipping but the oil leaking has subsided for the past two days. How do I asses the PCV system?

I'm debating what to do now, in March I was about to sell, decided against it for a number of reasons. I'm not sure if I'm ready to tackle a clutch and seal l replacement as my life is up in the air and fairly stressful at the moment, so I may just drop my asking price a bunch and let someone else tackle for my mental health. Working on the truck is zen for me, but its also my only driver now and having 2 kids to cart around as a single dad doesn't leave much of a window for projects.
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Old June 2nd, 2016, 07:17 AM
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Pcv system is easy to work on, one small replacement valve and a check hoses and canister for oil that's about it
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Old June 2nd, 2016, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
I do know for a fact that synthetic oil will leak where no oil has ever leaked before....
Same experience here. I see no reason to put synthetic in any old engine just for this reason (now a turbo car on the other hand...)
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Old June 3rd, 2016, 10:11 AM
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Putting my big boy pants on, ordered the parts and will be pulling the clutch and replacing the seals later this month, it will be good to get dirty again. Its slipping less day by day but I'd like to take a look anyways. The service manual I have doesn't have anything about this procedure so I'm sure I'll start a new thread when I get closer to the task.
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