Non-USA market '94 and '95 D90 importation. - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old January 7th, 2009, 08:49 PM
4x4sche
Status: Offline
john
73 SIII_ 97 D90_94 Disco
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: wa usa
Posts: 34
Non-USA market '94 and '95 D90 importation.

December 28th 2008 on the Federal Register the NHTSA issued a ruling that a Registered importer can now bring in certain '94 and '95 non-USA D90 models provided the specified modifications are performed.

http://www.regulations.gov/fdmspubli...HTSA-2008-0058
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old January 7th, 2009, 09:10 PM
Stmpede's Avatar
Stmpede
Status: Offline
Andrew Najarian
'93 NAS D110 #43
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 2,459
So do those Japanese defenders that were in question a little while ago carry the correct VIN sequence to be imported? If so, that looks like the best way to go since they have so much US stuff on them already. BTW, what about those 50th anniversary ones made in the UK? They weren't in the right years, and I don't know about the VIN's but those are very similar to US Defenders too!
__________________
"I have taken more good from alcohol than alcohol has taken from me." - Winston Churchill
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old January 7th, 2009, 09:15 PM
huck1974's Avatar
huck1974
Status: Offline
shane cates
94 d90
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: springfield mo
Posts: 890
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4sche
December 28th 2008 on the Federal Register the NHTSA issued a ruling that a Registered importer can now bring in certain '94 and '95 non-USA D90 models provided the specified modifications are performed.


http://www.regulations.gov/fdmspubli...HTSA-2008-0058

Sounds like a PITA
__________________
I love little baby ducks, old pick-up trucks, slow-moving trains, and rain
I love little country streams, sleep without dreams, sunday school in may,
And hay
And I love you too
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old January 7th, 2009, 09:18 PM
JimC's Avatar
JimC
Status: Offline
Jim Cheney
NAS 110 #145
Site Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Stuttgart, Germany
Posts: 7,154
Registry
Interesting. I like how Gabor Antalics at Skytop waded in and made a public submission about errors in the EAS's original application. I also like how it takes 9 months to certify that a vehicle is eligible. Bureaucracy rocks.
__________________
Jim Cheney

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old January 7th, 2009, 10:18 PM
nikojo's Avatar
nikojo
Status: Offline
John
D90 SW -- 2.8PS
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Fly over Country
Posts: 587
Has this been "accepted", is it a done deal??

Doesn't seem like its that much to do to make it compliant. Am I missing something??
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old January 7th, 2009, 10:57 PM
JimC's Avatar
JimC
Status: Offline
Jim Cheney
NAS 110 #145
Site Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Stuttgart, Germany
Posts: 7,154
Registry
Its not too much to make it compliant, but you'll have to contract and RI/ICI to do the work - to the tune of several thousand dollars.
__________________
Jim Cheney

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old January 8th, 2009, 06:06 AM
Wolf Fabrication's Avatar
Wolf Fabrication
Status: Offline
Sterling Archer
'08 D3
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Oahu, HI
Posts: 7,453
Registry
Generally what's needed to make one compliant?
__________________
"The most unreliable car in the world is the most reliable car in the world." -Jeremy Clarkson refering to the Range Rover


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Semper Fi!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old January 8th, 2009, 10:18 AM
ECR's Avatar
ECR
Status: Offline
East Coast Rover Co.
Just Defenders, nothing else.
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Rockland, ME, USA
Posts: 4,614
This ruling is not what you think (or what some of you may think).
What this ruling allows for is that certain NAS Spec. trucks that never made it to the USA can now be imported. It does not mean that the average Euro D90 is able to be imported or brought into compliance.

Basically what it means is that if a "NAS" 90 was sold to Saudi Arabia or other place and is of the same build (roll cage, V8, etc.) but just happens to fall outside a certain VIN, that truck can now come in.

The average Tdi powdered Euro D90 still can not.

If they pass another ruling for the 1997s there a number of "NAS" Japanese 90s that will be allowed in because they are exactly the same as the allowed truck, but they were built after 9/1/96.
__________________
Email:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I do not check PMs. Call or email if you need something.

ECR is not a parts source. We are not in the mail order business.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old January 8th, 2009, 10:23 AM
evilfij's Avatar
evilfij
Status: Offline
evilfij
I have never seen a rover in person
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: on the internet
Posts: 14,688
"FMVSS No. 114 Theft Protection:
Nonconforming vehicles do not have the
required key warning system.
Nonconforming vehicles with automatic
transmissions also do not have the required
rollaway prevention device."

LOL 94 and 95 D90s with autos. Ford sure does know its stuff.
__________________
*not legal advice*
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old January 8th, 2009, 10:24 AM
ECR's Avatar
ECR
Status: Offline
East Coast Rover Co.
Just Defenders, nothing else.
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Rockland, ME, USA
Posts: 4,614
I should state that my explanation above was the explanation given to me by Coleman Sachs of the NHTSA. It is not my own view.
__________________
Email:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I do not check PMs. Call or email if you need something.

ECR is not a parts source. We are not in the mail order business.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old January 8th, 2009, 10:47 AM
MonLand
Status: Offline
Loic Fabro
95 D90 - 96 Disco -06 LR3
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Herndon, VA - USA
Posts: 1,642
Registry
FMVSS No. 101 Controls and Displays:
Installation of U.S.-model speedometer and instrument cluster mounted telltale lamps or modification of existing components to achieve compliance with the standard.

FMVSS No. 106 Brake Hoses:
Inspection of the vehicles and replacement of any nonconforming brake hoses with U.S.-model
components.

FMVSS No. 105 Hydraulic and Electric Brake Systems:
Inspection of all vehicles and installation of U.S.-model brake system components as needed to meet the labeling requirements of the standard on vehicles that are not already so equipped.

FMVSS No. 108 Lamps, Reflective Devices, and Associated Equipment:
Installation of U.S.-model front and rear side marker lamps. Inspection of all vehicles and replacement of any nonconforming front parking lamps, rear lamps, and reflex reflectors with U.S.-model components on vehicles that are not already so equipped.

FMVSS No. 110 Tire Selection and Rims:
Installation of a conforming tire and rim information placard.

FMVSS No. 111 Rearview Mirrors:
Installation of a U.S.-model interior rearview mirror and compatible sun visors if the existing sun visors interfere with the compliance of the U.S.-model interior mirror, and installation of U.S.-model driver’s and passenger’s side exterior mounted rearview mirrors.

FMVSS No. 114 Theft Protection:
Installation of a U.S.-model key warning system and installation of a U.S.-model parkinterlock on vehicles with automatic transmissions.

FMVSS No. 119 New Pneumatic Tires for Vehicles Other than Passenger Cars:
Inspection of all vehicles and replacement of any tires that do not conform to the requirements of the standard.

FMVSS No. 124 Accelerator Control Systems:
Installation of a U.S.-model throttle, or production of test data showing that the existing throttle components conform to FMVSS No. 124.

FMVSS No. 203 Impact Protection for the Driver from the Steering Control System:
Installation of a U.S.-model padded steering wheel hub and a compatible U.S.-model spline column.

FMVSS No. 208 Occupant Crash Protection:
Installation of supplemental audible and visual seat belt warning systems and compatible U.S.-model seat belt components.

FMVSS No. 209 Seat Belt Assemblies:
Installation of U.S.-model seat belts.

FMVSS No. 210 Seat Belt Assembly Anchorages:
Inspection of all vehicles and installation, on vehicles that are not already so equipped, of U.S.-model anchorages.

FMVSS No. 212 Windshield Mounting:
Installation of the complete body stylespecific U.S.-model safari cage including the full external front hoop on vehicles not already so equipped.

FMVSS No. 216 Roof Crush Resistance:
The substantially similar U.S.-model vehicles were not certified to FMVSS No. 216, either because they were manufactured before September 1, 1994, the date the standard became applicable to MPVs, or because their gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) was 6,000 lbs. or greater. Therefore,
nonconforming vehicles manufactured on or after September 1, 1994 will only be eligible under this decision if they were manufactured with a GVWR greater than 2722 kg (6,000 lb).

FMVSS No. 219 Windshield Zone Intrusion:
Installation of the complete body style-specific U.S.-model safari cage including the full external front hoop.

FMVSS No. 301 Fuel System Integrity:
Installation of a U.S.-model rear step bar, rollover valve, and inertia switch. Inspection of all vehicles and replacement of any non-U.S.-model fuel system components with U.S.-model components.

49 CFR Part 565 Vehicle Identification number—Content Requirements:
Nonconforming vehicles imported and certified by RIs are not required to have vehicle identification numbers (VINs) that conform to the style and content requirements of 49 CFR Part 565. However, as required by 49 CFR Part 565.5(b), the VIN that was assigned to an imported vehicle by its original manufacturer must be displayed on the certification label applied by the RI and must also be on a plate or label located inside the vehicle and visible.

49 CFR Part 567 Certification:
Installation of an RI’s certification label as required by 49 CFR Part 567.2(b).

49 CFR Part 575.105 Consumer Information Regulations:
In addition to ensuring that converted vehicles conform to all applicable FMVSS, an RI who converts
one of the subject vehicles must also install a rollover warning label on the driver’s sun visor to meet the requirements of 49 CFR Part 757.105.



If it were me, I'd fly and install most of those parts before shipping the vehicule over here.... Of course, some large ticket items would still cost money and be hard to source (roll cage). Not sure if Safety Devices still manufactures the same cage but I think not.
Never worked with an RI, but do they let you do some work on the truck or are they just trying to make sure they make the most money possible but forcing you to only use their services? i.e. do they have a control/certification role or can they force you to also have them do all the work?
I could see myself import a truck, canibalize my truck to port the NAS parts to the imported truck, replacing (upgrading) the parts on my truck as needed, certify the new truck by a RI and ending up with one "imported" NAS truck and a "originally NAS" truck.

Anyway, why did Skytop add the comments they added? What do they have to gain?

Follow-up Post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ECR
Basically what it means is that if a "NAS" 90 was sold to Saudi Arabia or other place and is of the same build (roll cage, V8, etc.) but just happens to fall outside a certain VIN, that truck can now come in.
Hum..... So all list
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruling
(1) 1994 Land Rover Defender 90 MPVs—2-door pickup only,
(2) 1995 Land Rover Defender 90 MPVs—2-door pickup and 2-door station wagon hardtop only,
(3) 1994 & 1995 Land Rover Defender 90 MPVs—The seventh position of the VIN must be the character ‘‘A,’’
(4) 1994 & 1995 Land Rover Defender 90 MPVs—The eighth position must be the character ‘‘M,’’
(5) 1994 & 1995 Land Rover Defender 90 MPVs manufactured on or after September 1, 1994—The GVWR assigned by the original manufacturer must be greater than 2722 kg.
just means "NAS spec Truck not sold originally in the US" ? Jeeze.....
Does anyone has contacts @ LR to find out how many potential trucks we are talking about? Where were those sold? I'd love to find one, but I'm not going to even start looking if they don't exist. V8s are definitely not that common in Europe, those still there have mostly been dedicated to competitive events and not worth importing for road use! ;-).
__________________
Quote:
I have an ex MoD and an ex wife. The two no longer conflict with each other.
Quote:
it is not hoarding it is selective collecting
---
MonLand
1995 D90 NAS
1996 Discovery NAS
2006 LR3 NAS (hers, but comfy! :) )
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old January 8th, 2009, 11:02 AM
ECR's Avatar
ECR
Status: Offline
East Coast Rover Co.
Just Defenders, nothing else.
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Rockland, ME, USA
Posts: 4,614
The ruling is totally screwed up IMO.

The requirements for this import (broad strokes) are:

1. It has to be a 1994 or 1995 Defender 90
2. It has to be built on or after Sept. 1,1994
3. The 7th digit in the VIN must be A. This denotes basic model 90
4. The 8th digit in the VIN must be M. This denotes a 4.0 EFI V8 gas

I'm not 100% sure, but I'm pretty sure Land Rover stopped putting V8s in any Defender (other than NAS trucks) back in the early 1990s.

Add to this that needed equipment for compliance (the roll cage) is now NLA and that they never had a 4.0 in 1994 or 1995 and it all adds up to a big nothing.

I'm trying to get clarification from the DOT. If I get it I will report.
__________________
Email:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I do not check PMs. Call or email if you need something.

ECR is not a parts source. We are not in the mail order business.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old January 8th, 2009, 01:44 PM
evilfij's Avatar
evilfij
Status: Offline
evilfij
I have never seen a rover in person
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: on the internet
Posts: 14,688
"FMVSS No. 212 Windshield Mounting:
Installation of the complete body stylespecific U.S.-model safari cage including the full external front hoop on vehicles not already so equipped."

Might want to point out the POE model tops to save a few bucks in cage costs.
__________________
*not legal advice*
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old January 8th, 2009, 03:29 PM
MonLand
Status: Offline
Loic Fabro
95 D90 - 96 Disco -06 LR3
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Herndon, VA - USA
Posts: 1,642
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECR
I'm not 100% sure, but I'm pretty sure Land Rover stopped putting V8s in any Defender (other than NAS trucks) back in the early 1990s.
Not that I trust Wikipedia, but the article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Rover_Defender seems to state the V8 3.5L stopped being used in 1993 (that's when the 90/110/127 name stopped being used.
But lists the 3.9L V8 for the Defender (1990 onward) and states "with the other 4-cylinder engines (and the V8 petrol engine) still being available". And a bit later "Small numbers of V8-engined Defenders were sold to users in countries with low fuel costs or who required as much power as possible (such as in Defenders used as fire engines or ambulances)".

Follow-up Post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ECR
3. The 7th digit in the VIN must be A. This denotes basic model 90
4. The 8th digit in the VIN must be M. This denotes a 4.0 EFI V8 gas
According to http://www.lrfaq.org/Series/FAQ.S.Ch...storyType.html, for a ROW VIN (different than US VIN):
  • 7 (body type) : A = Truck Cab, Soft Top or Hard Top (Utility body)
  • 8 (engine) : M = 3.9 liter V8 (injection)

So that would match our trucks.

Interestingly, in the US VIN, there is no distinction between the 3.9L and the 4.0L V8 engines (or the V6 engine of the Freelander....).
__________________
Quote:
I have an ex MoD and an ex wife. The two no longer conflict with each other.
Quote:
it is not hoarding it is selective collecting
---
MonLand
1995 D90 NAS
1996 Discovery NAS
2006 LR3 NAS (hers, but comfy! :) )
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old January 8th, 2009, 03:55 PM
ECR's Avatar
ECR
Status: Offline
East Coast Rover Co.
Just Defenders, nothing else.
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Rockland, ME, USA
Posts: 4,614
Thats cool. My books just said that code was for a 4.0 EFI. Likely doesn't matter anyway. I think the DOT just means they want a V8 in there so that it is like the NAS trucks.

I don't know much about non-NAS Defenders, but it was my understanding that in that time frame (1994-1995) that Rover didn't offer any Defenders with the EFI V8 other than trucks that were basically NAS. Some of those "NAS" trucks may have gone to other places, but any 1994-1995 Defender I have ever seen with a factory V8 installed in pictures looks pretty much like a NAS truck. My point being I don't think there are 90 pick ups and such with no roll cage and such that are EFI V8 from the factory that would be importable under this ruling.

Attached is a picture a French customer sent me of his D90. It never was in the USA, it was used as Land Rover promo in France. He ended up selling it for huge money in France.

Long story short... I just don't see this ruling opening up much of a window for further imports. I bet finding a truck that meets the requirements would be next to impossible.

Someone in Europe needs to chime in.

Follow-up Post:

Also remember that these cars would need to be factory LHD, not conversions (DOT requirement for RI import on a Defender), so that leaves the UK pretty much out as a supply source.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0800.JPG
Views:	203
Size:	38.7 KB
ID:	17239  
__________________
Email:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I do not check PMs. Call or email if you need something.

ECR is not a parts source. We are not in the mail order business.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old January 8th, 2009, 06:05 PM
Defender50th's Avatar
Defender50th
Status: Offline
James
'94 NAS AA Yellow
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Hampshire, UK
Posts: 216
NAS trucks over here are very rare. There is a 94 in the Gaydon motor musium (pic below). There is also a collector over here with a yellow soft top the same that he had imported.

As Mike says, these would sell for good money over here so the cost's would make it silly to ship back

Seems this new rule is almost pointless

James
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	NAS.JPG
Views:	145
Size:	93.1 KB
ID:	17245  
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old January 8th, 2009, 10:26 PM
hamiamham
Status: Offline
mike
97 D-90
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: New York City
Posts: 190
Can someone explain to me two things: 1. Why a company like superperformance can import basically whatever design car as "rolling stock" - ie without an engine or transmission - put the engine and transmission in said vehicle and have a completely legal car. 2. how guys are importing much more recent vintage 110's from overseas, getting them titled and registered. This just shudnt be as hard as it is.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old January 9th, 2009, 08:00 AM
ECR's Avatar
ECR
Status: Offline
East Coast Rover Co.
Just Defenders, nothing else.
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Rockland, ME, USA
Posts: 4,614
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamiamham
Can someone explain to me two things: 1. Why a company like superperformance can import basically whatever design car as "rolling stock" - ie without an engine or transmission - put the engine and transmission in said vehicle and have a completely legal car. 2. how guys are importing much more recent vintage 110's from overseas, getting them titled and registered. This just shudnt be as hard as it is.
Not that I agree with any of this, but here goes:
1. Superformance imports an "assembledge" of a motor vehicle. These are not bound by all DOT laws because they are not a "car". You can't take the engine out of a 90 and achieve the same results as according to DOT because that was a "car" at one time so it can't be an "assembledge" ever again.
Then I asked the DOT about importing a factory knock down kit (basically a Defender that never was a car or assembled before) and they said that was not importable as it was enough of a vehicle to be classed as a vehicle at import and therefor not legal and would have to meet all DOT laws for the current year.
Government double talk.

2. Getting a title is easy in some states. Import the truck with an older VIN or something and poof you have a newer 110 in the USA. Just depends on if you want to take the risk or not.
__________________
Email:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I do not check PMs. Call or email if you need something.

ECR is not a parts source. We are not in the mail order business.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old January 9th, 2009, 01:33 PM
cgalpin's Avatar
cgalpin
Status: Offline
Charles Galpin
'94 D90 ST, '63 SeriesIIA
Site Team
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: South Riding, VA
Posts: 11,624
Registry
I don't see the upside with this. They are just 94/95s anyway which we have here already and I don't think you'd save much. If we were talking a 2005 it would mean something.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old January 9th, 2009, 01:48 PM
Uncle Douglas's Avatar
Uncle Douglas
Status: Offline
Doug Crowther
A defender in every driveway-motto
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Gods Country- Central Virginia
Posts: 11,832
Registry
Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by ECR

Long story short... I just don't see this ruling opening up much of a window for further imports. I bet finding a truck that meets the requirements would be next to impossible.

Someone in Europe needs to chime in.

Follow-up Post:

Also remember that these cars would need to be factory LHD, not conversions (DOT requirement for RI import on a Defender), so that leaves the UK pretty much out as a supply source.
Exactly- know of a fellow who tried to bring in a 1993 rhd 110 and have Gabor "federalize it" when he had that ability. The truck got turned around @ the docks and sent back to the UK. Majically it came back in to the US on the West Coast as a 1983.......
__________________
Good judgement comes from experience,experience comes from bad judgement.

Dividing Creek Imports
Worldwide Vehicle Shipment and Importation Service
Restoration & Modification work


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

410.693.1391


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions

Tags
90, 95, d90, import

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
F.S 94 D90 hardtop POE model disco dog For Sale - Vehicles 18 February 12th, 2009 10:08 AM
Will AC from a 94 fit a 95? aosias Defender Technical Discussions 1 January 21st, 2009 01:50 PM
94 or 95 defender TND90 Wanted 0 June 7th, 2008 12:19 AM
ECU from 94 for 95 nikojo Defender Technical Discussions 2 June 6th, 2008 03:29 PM
Is it a 94 or 95 D90? PT94D90 Misc. Chit-Chat 5 November 12th, 2003 01:17 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:20 PM.


Copyright