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  #1  
Old February 26th, 2012, 03:09 PM
Surfin' Elvis
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Chuck
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no start after extensive rebuild

Frustrated! New pistons, rings, head, head gaskets, timing belt, all seals, new turbo, fuel filter, injectors, etc, etc. Cranks fine, no start. Plenty fuel at injectors, timing spot-on.
The only thing I forgot was the copper washers at each return port at the top of the injectors. One is leaking quite a bit. Would this prevent it from running?
I thought it would at least run a bit and lose its prime if the spill rail had a slight leak.
Ordering more tiny parts tomorrow...
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  #2  
Old February 26th, 2012, 04:25 PM
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Matthew
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Have the fuel stop solenoid connected? Glow plugs cranked down? Any chance the crank was 180 out when you put the TB on?
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  #3  
Old February 26th, 2012, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surfin' Elvis View Post
The only thing I forgot was the copper washers at each return port at the top of the injectors. One is leaking quite a bit. Would this prevent it from running?
I thought it would at least run a bit and lose its prime if the spill rail had a slight leak.
Ordering more tiny parts tomorrow...
I would think that without the copper crush washers, the cylinders are unable to keep their compression, hence, the fuel cannot burn.

What you see as leakage is probably fuel blowing by the place where the copper crush washer should be.
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  #4  
Old February 26th, 2012, 07:18 PM
Surfin' Elvis
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I had the flywheel locked with the pin, woodruff keys pointing up, both valves on #1 cylinder closed. The injectors are leaking on the return rail. The injector spill rail should not be affected by compression in the cylinder, though, as it is above the closed intake valve on the compression stroke, correct?
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  #5  
Old February 26th, 2012, 07:35 PM
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Have you checked the power feed to the pump? You have a switched power feed that goes to the pump. It acts as a fuel cut off switch. I had the fuel return come off and the engine was running fine, diesel all over the place, but running.
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Old February 26th, 2012, 08:12 PM
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OK Surfer, let's back up the bus.
Are we talking about a 300tdi? Some of the items you're mentioning don't fit the picture, eg., return rail, spill rail? That's a gas engine term,.... maybe. Injector return fuel happens via small rubber hoses connecting one injector to another, then a return line to the main fuel tank. Put the copper crush washers in, they are not optional and torque them properly.

And MC22958,
"power feed to the pump" What the hell is that?
Which pump?
The only "power" (I'll assume you mean, electricity) involved here is a positive charged wire to the IP (injection pump) while the engine is running, of course other than the starter, yea the one that turns the motor over to the engine.
There is no power to the mechanical lift pump and there is no "in the tank" pump on a 300tdi fuel circuit.

Best to specify to a guy (Surfin" Elvis) who only has 25 posts.
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  #7  
Old February 26th, 2012, 08:17 PM
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Dennis, calm down dude....It is the injection pump, which has a switched power feed. A lot of people forget about it when they are doing rebuilds or conversions.
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  #8  
Old February 26th, 2012, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MC22958 View Post
Dennis, calm down dude....It is the injection pump, which has a switched power feed. A lot of people forget about it when they are doing rebuilds or conversions.
Should be hooked into the "run/on" circuit at the ignition switch.

I love a good coronary in the evening !!
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  #9  
Old February 26th, 2012, 09:08 PM
Surfin' Elvis
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It is a 300tdi. Forgive the conflicting terms, but on a diesel I use both "spill" and "return".
No, I did not forget the hot wire to the fuel stop solenoid.
I should be able to find some copper washers locally that would work, hell, they're not that special.

------ Follow up post added February 26th, 2012 09:11 PM ------

Quote:
Best to specify to a guy (Surfin" Elvis) who only has 25 posts.
And 25 years of hobby wrenchin'...
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  #10  
Old February 26th, 2012, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surfin' Elvis View Post
I should be able to find some copper washers locally that would work, hell, they're not that special.
Do you have one that's not mangled, to take measurements from? ID, OD, and thickness? If not someone in the group could possible share those spec's ?
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  #11  
Old February 26th, 2012, 09:20 PM
Surfin' Elvis
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I'll take the banjo bolt to get it right. Too thick, not a problem. Inside diameter is critical, outside looks like it has room for error.
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  #12  
Old February 26th, 2012, 09:22 PM
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John B.
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Are you 100% sure you have not set the timing one turn out? You definitely were at TDC of the compression stroke when it was set?
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  #13  
Old February 27th, 2012, 07:33 AM
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I always start diagnosing problems on these engines with compression testing. The compression tester uses the glowplug port, so you know immediately if you're getting the pressures you need for ignition. The compression tester is the single best diagnostic tool I've found.
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  #14  
Old February 27th, 2012, 12:58 PM
Surfin' Elvis
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Followed every shop manual step in the rebuild, even had the correct LR tools!
After further thinking, and discussion with RDS, my copper washers (which do NOT have to be LR parts!) are leaking, causing air in the system. I also did not thoroughly bleed the fuel system and, since I have an entirely new fuel system, there's a LOT of air that needs to come out.
I will further bleed the fuel system tomorrow morning and report back with the results.
On my way to hunt down some little copper washers now...
Thanks for the input.
Dennis wrote:
Quote:
Some of the items you're mentioning don't fit the picture, eg., return rail, spill rail?
While searching for some info, found this part from brookwell in the UK: http://www.brookwell.co.uk/item/1558...ll-rail-300tdi
I guess I was speaking British and didn't even know it!
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  #15  
Old February 27th, 2012, 01:30 PM
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To bleed the system it is best to remove the return line banjo bolt wich has a pressure regulator in it. Push the fuel through until it spills from the top of the injection pump. Spill some more fuel. Then replace the banjo bolt and start the engine. Best not to be cranking the engine with a dry injection pump.
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  #16  
Old February 27th, 2012, 01:31 PM
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It really should not matter. These system self bleed fine. You say you have fuel at the injectors. That is all you need.

Crack the high pressure fittings at the injectors. Crank until they are pumping out diesel. Tighten two, crank and it should start then tighten the other two.

Leaks at the spill rail should not matter.
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  #17  
Old February 27th, 2012, 02:12 PM
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I'd go for a bad stop solenoid. if there is power to it with ignition on remove the solenoid pull the plunger and spring out of the end and re-fit the body of the solenoid to the pump it should start.

with any other fault it should almost catch but not start, with a duff stop solenoid it will just crank.

have fun
Gren
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  #18  
Old February 27th, 2012, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surfin' Elvis View Post
....Plenty fuel at injectors...
Is this correct? If so, fuel supply is NOT the problem.....
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  #19  
Old February 27th, 2012, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
Is this correct? If so, fuel supply is NOT the problem.....
I have seen this scenario a few times before. Engine seems to have fuel because of left over traces. With a big pocket of air behind that. So when walking people through their problems I do not assume they have bled the fuel system properly. It is not hard to do it correctly if you follow a proven method.

So I disagree with you Red. It is such a simple thing to double check, so I wonder why you would bother to disagree with me. And it is an important step if components like the injection pump are operating without fluid in them. I know you see the logic in this.

After that is corrected. Then if the stop solenoid is a new one with a new injection pump, It may end up being the issue. Or the timing. The balancer marks have been checked against the fuel pump dowel setting, I imagine. Wonder if the camshaft was lined up when the crankshaft pulley was lined against its marks on the inner timing cover. There is less guesswork to confirm things in this method.
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  #20  
Old February 27th, 2012, 03:21 PM
Surfin' Elvis
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I only checked #1 cylinder at the top of the injector, but did not check the others. There was fuel coming out but since I had no one to crank, couldn't tell from the cab uf there was air.
I have checked the fuel stop solenoid on the new injector pump and it functions normally.
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