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  #1  
Old September 6th, 2006, 12:05 AM
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loykd
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Ken Loy
1994 Portofino Red ST
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No start

I've got these really "bling", new stainless steel oil lines and I can't even try them out.

The truck wouldnt start and here is the history:

I washed under the hood a couple of weeks ago, and I've since dried off all connectors I could see. Hasn't started since then.

The fuel pump is getting fuel into the manifold. I'm getting a good spark off the coil and at the plugs. I've pulled the distributor cap, cleaned it out, and reinstalled. I'm sure it's back in the original position. I've pulled the plugs and there's fuel in the cylinders. I cleaned off all the plugs, motored the engine to blow out the cylinders, reinstalled the plugs.

Still, no start. Throttle opened wide, and no change. It turns, but I'm not hearing any attempt to ignite.

I pulled a few plugs again, and they're soaked with fuel, again.

ECU shows no codes now, although I had a few that I've since cleared during the troubleshooting.

So, I've got spark and fuel. It might just be that I've flooded the engine again, and after I let it sit for the night, it'll crank right up. If not, any other ideas?

(Damn, if those oil lines and new VDO gauges don't look purdy! I wonder if they work??)
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  #2  
Old September 6th, 2006, 09:00 AM
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evilfij
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Do you get a Check Engine Light at start up? You should.

Let it crank Wide open throttle for about 20 seconds if you hear no attempt to catch then you have bigger issues but it is probably just flooded.
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  #3  
Old September 6th, 2006, 09:20 AM
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Chris Davis
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Sometimes with a bad ignition switch, everything seems to work except you only get intermittant spark (if at all) at the plugs. Basically, it is not turning on the coil. If you are SURE you are getting spark consistently, then I think you are flooding it for some reason--
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  #4  
Old September 6th, 2006, 10:18 AM
redrover

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Did you hose wash it or pressure wash? Did you use hot water? This is a long shot but hot /high pressure can breakdown engine gunk and let it flow down to critical sensors. Clean both ends of the crank shaft sensor. This short would prevent a startup. Although I would expect a idiot light on dash. But worth a try. JP
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  #5  
Old September 6th, 2006, 12:35 PM
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steve
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One time after flooding the V8 really badly the oil was so full of gas the breathers picked it up and clogged the lines. Just something to look out for... you should change your oil if it is flooded, bearings don't like gas.
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  #6  
Old September 6th, 2006, 01:07 PM
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Jim Ngo
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Air, fuel and spark is all you need. It sounds like you have all the ingredients. I would suspect the timing of the spark. Check that the wires are connected to the distributor cap in the right order? I know it sounds too simple, but you never know....
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  #7  
Old September 6th, 2006, 01:16 PM
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Charles Galpin
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I know it's been a few weeks, but have you sprayed wire-dry or the like on all the electrical components since the wash? That's likely all it needs.

charles
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  #8  
Old September 6th, 2006, 04:25 PM
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Ken Loy
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CHECK ENGINE LIGHT: I had it before, but reset the ECU. I had the fuel temp transmitter wires pulled inadvertently and that threw a code. Since I reset, still wont start and no new codes.

FLOODING: Definitely. I can't figure out if it's because the ECU is sending too much fuel, or I've forgotten how to start an engine properly and am flooding it myself as I keep troubleshooting.

GUNK: Possibly so. I sprayed with Gunk engine cleaner and might have fouled something. Where's the crankshaft sensor, JP?

OIL/GAS MIXTURE: Prob not. I drained and refilled the oil during this down time.

WET ELECTRICAL COMPONENTS: I'll spray again tonite. Any that I should particularly look at? Remember that (I think) I'm getting a good spark at the plugs, so ignition should be right.
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  #9  
Old September 6th, 2006, 04:30 PM
Doug Crowther
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Doug Crowther
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wont start

try giving her a shot of ether. If she fires momentarily (should) then you know you have compression and spark. if not I would suspect the plug wire configuration.
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  #10  
Old September 6th, 2006, 04:38 PM
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Ken Loy
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ether? just shoot some into each of the cylinders??
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  #11  
Old September 6th, 2006, 05:26 PM
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"CHECK ENGINE LIGHT: I had it before, but reset the ECU. I had the fuel temp transmitter wires pulled inadvertently and that threw a code. Since I reset, still wont start and no new codes."

Not quite what I am asking. Does it come on for a couple seconds at start up and then go off. It should. If it does not you have an ecu problem.
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  #12  
Old September 6th, 2006, 05:31 PM
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It's not the crankshaft sensor, only 97's had those.

If you are getting fuel then the coil is at least sorta working. The ECU recives a signal from the coil to tell the injectors to fire, if it doesn't get a consistant signal it won't fire. So this meanse the coil is charging and discharging, but it doesn't mean the spark is getting beyond that.

Check out this thread, post #11
http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...ead.php?t=5559
thats right from the manual

Some other info here

http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...ead.php?t=6475
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  #13  
Old September 6th, 2006, 06:59 PM
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Andy Radlgruber
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I have flooded mine in the past and it would never start afterwards with the 'wide open' trick. There is a fuel injector trigger wire going from your coil to a bundle of taped up wires near the back of you intake manifold. Disconnect this wire from the coil, turn it over and it will probably give you a sputter and then quit. This wire tells the injectors to shoot fuel into the cylinder. By disconnecting it you are allowing the spark to ignite the excess fuel. Once you have burned out the flooded gas hook the wire back up again and she should start, though maybe a bit rough for the first few seconds. It works for me so well that I am thinking of putting a quick disconnect on the wire.
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  #14  
Old September 6th, 2006, 09:04 PM
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Ken Loy
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Fuel: Yes
Spark: Yes

Air maybe? What could be the source there?

I shot some starting fluid into the intake chamber and it doesnt do nuthin. That was after blowing out the cylinders again.

Ron, regarding your question about the ECU, yes the light goes out shortly after turning on the ignition.

Andy, thanks for the tip, but that doesnt do anything either. It's not sputtering or ANYTHING.
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  #15  
Old September 7th, 2006, 12:14 AM
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Chris Davis
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Do a compression check, then. If it comes back good, then your timing is off--I don't know why it would be, but if you have spark, compression, and fuel, then it is the timing of the spark.
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  #16  
Old September 7th, 2006, 01:24 AM
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Ken Loy
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would a cracked distributor cap or a bad ignition module still have a good spark, but bad timing? I cranked the motor with all the plugs connected to the wires but outside the cylinder and all of them are firing strong and in a regular pattern. (not sure it's the right pattern, but at least its consistent) So I know it's getting a good spark.

And again, I've flooded it. Plugs are very damp. I tried starter fluid too, and that didn't do nuthin either...

I'm sure I'm making this too hard. Only thing I did was to rinse off the engine (while it was cool, not hot), and have since replaced the gauges with VDO, oil change, and put on the new oil lines.

Hmmmmm.
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  #17  
Old September 7th, 2006, 07:38 PM
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Bryan Tate
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Check your fuses in the engine comparment (I think there are three in the case)
I shorted one out when I took out the dash....turned over....but no run
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  #18  
Old September 7th, 2006, 07:44 PM
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Charles Galpin
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Ken, make sure you didn't screw up the firing order when you pulled the plugs/wires.

I'm an international man of leisure right now, so if you need a hand working on this, just yell.

charles
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  #19  
Old September 7th, 2006, 10:49 PM
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Ken Loy
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I really appreciate the ideas guys.

I double checked the spark plug wires and they're all correct.
I checked the fuses, both in the engine compartment and above the tunnel.

cranking it tonite, it TRIED to turn over, but just couldnt catch. It's not consistent either.

I'm thinking that the fuel metering is way too rich. Is it possible that a cracked manifold would cause a no-start? Air not moving properly...

On the fuel side, I checked the coolant temp sensor connection, the air line on the fuel pressure regulator on the back of the fuel manifold, the MAF, all other connectors (but most of the ignition stuff looks like they're sealed and water didnt get in them).

What else haven't I thought of?

Charles, if you have some magic starting dust, bring it on over! Plentiful beer supplied if you, Matt, Tony, Trevor, or anyone else wanna come over this weekend.

ARG!!!!!!!
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  #20  
Old September 8th, 2006, 08:49 AM
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Tony Brooks
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I may be able to --- want to set a time up?

Have you gone through the ignition system troubleshooting procedure in the workshop manual?
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