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  #1  
Old May 26th, 2015, 09:15 AM
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Keith Zack
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No Start 300tdi

A week or so ago my wife had been driving the 90, but drove it back home once it started making a noise she described as releasing one of those wind-up toys. I then started it up and took it out the driveway and back. I confirmed the noise, but to me it had sounds of grinding as well. I parked the car and had no time to look at it further until a week later.

When I first heard the noise (while driving) it sounded as though it was coming from the left hand side of the engine bay. I thought it could be the turbo. I took the boost hose off and there was no play at all from what I could feel. So then I went to start the car so I could hear the noise again and determine where it was coming from. The car would not start. Cranks strong, but no indication at all of it wanting to start.

Is it possible the lift pump has died? The 90 did struggle to get RPMs above 2k. If I pull the lift pump, will it be obvious if it has failed?

Other suggestions?

Thanks, Keith
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  #2  
Old May 26th, 2015, 09:31 AM
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Robert Davis
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Can't tell from afar...
Disconnect the outlet line from the lift pump and drop the end in a can, bottle, cup, what-have-you.
Crank the engine and observe the flow.
Strong steady flow = good.
Weak or no flow = bad.
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  #3  
Old May 26th, 2015, 07:58 PM
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I wonder if the timing belt went making that "Toy" noise as it shredded? Once you check to see if you have fuel at the lift pump check to see if you have fuel at the injectors. I would also check to make sure you have power at he stop solenoid.
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  #4  
Old May 26th, 2015, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Milks View Post
I wonder if the timing belt went making that "Toy" noise as it shredded? Once you check to see if you have fuel at the lift pump check to see if you have fuel at the injectors. I would also check to make sure you have power at he stop solenoid.
If the timing belt went, you could see the reaction on the rockers by opening the breather. (not familiar with 300 but I assume you could see at least one rocker)

could work backward or forward for the fuel. but will have to get to the low side eventually to rule it out. Might as well start as the venerable Mr Davis already pointed out.

Either pump could have failed and started making noise. Lift pump is probably more likely to fail suddenly.
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  #5  
Old May 27th, 2015, 10:09 AM
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Thanks Guys,

I had thought about the cam belt, but didn't want to say that out loud :-)

Won't have time to mess with this until later in the weekend. Will report back (with questions I'm sure) next week.

Thanks, Keith
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  #6  
Old May 27th, 2015, 10:33 AM
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You stated it ran after the noise. A broken belt would not run.
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  #7  
Old May 27th, 2015, 11:05 AM
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The original post and subsequent posts indicate you have no idea how to systematically diagnose a no start condition.

No play at all in the turbo doesn't mean anything without further information. For all we know the rotor is locked solid and seized. Does it spin?

I assume you undid the intake hose from the back of the turbo facing the firewall. Try undoing the the hose @ the intake manifold, that will remove the turbo from the equation. You can also use a mirror and a flashlight if you can't see into the compressor (intake hose side, facing the firewall) side of the turbo. Look for damage to the vanes.

If you suspect the turbo suffered catastrophic failure, I would stop trying to start the engine until you have confiremd whether or not that is the case. You don't want any more pieces and parts of the hardened steel vanes entering the intake. Hopefully if that is the case, most of it got caught be the intercooler.

Disconnecting the intercooler pipe @ the intake manifold (big 2" + diameter hose on top of the engine) will also help avoid any bits and pieces that may be working their way into the engine.

If the turbo doesn't spin, then check to see if the waste gate is operational.

Roberts advice to determine fuel flow is spot on once you determine the cause of the grinding sound. Which could also be the water pump or alternator or any other accessory. You could remove the serp belt and check all those individually.

etc etc
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  #8  
Old May 27th, 2015, 06:13 PM
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well.. cept most of those things wouldn't likely cause a "no start". They would cause a crappy run. Even a failed turbo would try to start... well.. generally. Wouldn't it?
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  #9  
Old May 27th, 2015, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DefenderMd View Post
well.. cept most of those things wouldn't likely cause a "no start". They would cause a crappy run. Even a failed turbo would try to start... well.. generally. Wouldn't it?
Yes, even with a trashed turbo it should start. It may smoke, may run on engine oil and sound like a chugging train, may leak oil from either end of the turbo.... but it should run.
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  #10  
Old May 27th, 2015, 07:42 PM
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that and it might run away...
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  #11  
Old May 29th, 2015, 07:42 PM
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Hi All,

Yes, it ran for a few miles and was parked in the garage. A week later, it would not start.

Today I opened the bleed screw atop the fuel filter and nothing came out on turning the engine. Then I split the out going line from the lift pump and again no fuel at all upon turning the engine.

So then I pulled the lift pump. Visually it looks fine. Is there any way at all to test this before I order a new one? There's a lever to the side of the housing that I'm unsure of its purpose.

Thanks, Keith
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  #12  
Old May 29th, 2015, 07:48 PM
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So I only say this because I have been called to help someone with the same problem before and fixed it in the following way...
First... Is there fuel in the tank?
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  #13  
Old May 29th, 2015, 08:13 PM
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You can test it loose. Just pump the cam lever and put a finger over the inlet. Does it suck?
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  #14  
Old May 29th, 2015, 08:16 PM
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N of course if it does suck, you only got 2 things left to check
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  #15  
Old May 29th, 2015, 08:19 PM
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:-) I had thought about lack of fuel in the tank. The gage (which has always been accurate) reads 1/2 and from last time it was filled would confirm it should have 1/2 tank.

I had put a finger over both tubes and had no suck or push.

Also, I can't make it make any horrible or unusual sounds, but of course that's by hand and not equivelant to engine horsepower.

Thanks, Keith
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  #16  
Old May 29th, 2015, 08:27 PM
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Worth a try....
Dip inlet in water - see if it sucks
Outlet in water- bubbles?
Neither - diaphram gone.
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  #17  
Old May 31st, 2015, 06:23 AM
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Sounds like it might just be a lift pump problem to me. I'd install a new one to easily eliminate from the whole equation as they're 'cheap as chips'. Remember to order two new olives as the pump won't come with same normally.

All the best

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  #18  
Old May 31st, 2015, 09:21 AM
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If you need to move the vehicle, you can put the lift pump back and install a 12V fuel pump.
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #19  
Old June 9th, 2015, 12:34 PM
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Hi All,

I received the new lift pump. As soon as I got it, I realized the old one was bad. The old one had no resistance while pumping the lever and had no suction through the pipes. The new one has tons of suction and has a lot of resistance.

So I put it on and figured I'd be rolling - not so :-(

I primed the pump and have tons of fuel coming out the fuel filter bleed screw, but no start. I cranked with the pedal to the floor many times and finally got it to start. Tons of white smoke, no power at all. Will not re-start after parking.

I'm thinking it is out of time somehow. I have no idea how that could be related to the failed lift pump, or maybe it isn't. I took the valve cover off and everything moves as it should while turning the engine. Nothing is broken at least from a visual inspection of the top side of the head.

I suppose I'll work at getting the front cover off to have a look at the cam belt and timing. Might be a while as spare time is hard to come by.

Thanks for you help, Keith
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  #20  
Old June 9th, 2015, 12:38 PM
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Crack all of the injection pipes at the injectors. Crank until there is fuel coming out and tightening one at a time.
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