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  #1  
Old August 18th, 2010, 12:21 PM
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Charles Galpin
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No start

I'm starting a fresh thread for my no-start issue on the truck I just bought. I believe the PO parked the truck and came out and it wouldn't start. Had it towed somewhere and it sat for a year (possibly longer). I don't know if it was moisture related at the time, or what exactly was done to try rectify it. The cap/rotor/wires/plugs all look new to me so they might have been done after.

The engine turns over but does not start. I have verified the fuel pump is kicking on when you turn the key to the run position. ECU is clean and dry although I have not tried to shake it or take apart yet.

When I was looking at the truck we sprayed some ether into the plenum and it started and ran for a couple of seconds. Very quick, but felt to me like this validated the electrical side was ok and it was a fuel issue. 4 days later when I went to crank the starter to put it on the trailer, I wasn't in low gear yet and it sounded almost like it wanted to start. This seems like a flooded type issue but doesn't explain why ether worked. I forgot to pull the fuel pump relay while moving the truck so I could have induced a flooded situation right now. I tried holding the pedal to the floor and cranking it a bit and at times it has sounded like it wanted to take but didn't. If say it was only flooded now I'd wonder what was changed that fixed it?

The PO and his father did confirm there was fuel coming out the return side of the fuel rail but felt it
might not be building enough pressure. I see moisture on the back of the valley which might be fuel - hard to tell where it is coming from. What is the best way to check the fuel pressure?

I have been told you can get a cheap tester to make sure the injectors are firing - does it sound like I need to do this?

I have verified it has spark, both just from a plug wire but I also pulled a plug and checked it while grounded as the engine turned over. I am not sure if this is normal or not but I saw fewer sparks than I had thought to see - maybe one per second kind of rate - maybe this is normal for a engine turning over on startup (1/8th of slower rpms). Plug wasn't wet, maybe a bit sooty - cell phone pics suck.

Thoughts on what to check next? I don't have my other truck here but as soon as I do I plan to try swapping the ignition module and ECU. What else?

thanks,
charles
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  #2  
Old August 18th, 2010, 12:25 PM
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Tony Brooks
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Somewhere I have a template to cut a hole in the bed to access the fuel pump . . . want it?
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  #3  
Old August 18th, 2010, 12:27 PM
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Charles Galpin
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Naah. Like I said the fuel pump works. Besides I have to drop the tank to address the rust at the rear and replace the fuel tank cradle anyway so if I need to get at the pump it's no extra work.
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Old August 18th, 2010, 12:28 PM
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While you said you think it's not igntion, it might be worth running through the test procedure in the workshop manual for the ignition system. It could very well be the ignition module.
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  #5  
Old August 18th, 2010, 12:38 PM
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Like I said on the phone, see if the injectors are firing. $3 test light from AB. If you hear the pump, but don't smell gas, then the injectors are not firing and it is the ECU/ECU relay or, my guess, the ignition module.

If you have both an ECU and ignition module on hand, they are easier to swap and just see if she starts.
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  #6  
Old August 18th, 2010, 12:40 PM
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IIRC, the ECU receives a signal from the ignition that the engine is rotating so that it knows to trigger the injectors. You said you had spark but it was weak and the engine was turning slowly?

The injector pulse width is controlled by, among other sensors, the coolant temp sensor. If that sensor is faulty, the injector wont allow enough fuel to run correctly. (And a running pump doesn't necessarily mean enough pressure.) Try disconnecting the CTS and jumping it to force an input to the ECU.

If it's been sitting long and the battery has been dead, there probably aren't any codes stored in the ECU, but are there any on the display unit?

I have an adaptor to fit inline at the fuel rail where you can measure fuel pressure. PM me if you'd like to borrow it.
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  #7  
Old August 18th, 2010, 12:53 PM
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Charles Galpin
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No ecu codes but it's had various batteries swapped in/out so I'm sure they would have cleared if there was one. If I disconnect the ECU I get the expected 02.

No the engine turns over nice and fast, and I think the spark is as strong as I recall it being on my truck. The thing I am unsure about is how fast the plug sparking should be when the engine turns over - it seemed slower than I expected.

Once I have my other truck here I'll try swap out the ignition module and ecu. If those don't help I'll try bypassing the CTS and then move onto checking the pressure and injectors, thanks!
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  #8  
Old August 18th, 2010, 01:10 PM
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is it the old gas or do you have fresh?
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  #9  
Old August 18th, 2010, 01:22 PM
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Charles Galpin
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Old gas (i added a gallon or so to make sure the gauge wasn't wrong and it was empty). Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd think it would start on old gas - maybe not run perfect, but it would start no?
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Old August 18th, 2010, 01:31 PM
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It will start on old gas. I mean like 1-2 year old gas, not 5 year old gas.

As long as it does not smell sour, it should run off it.
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  #11  
Old August 18th, 2010, 01:36 PM
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Rollover cut out switch ... did you reset it??
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  #12  
Old August 18th, 2010, 01:56 PM
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Charles Galpin
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Yes. Assuming I understand the operation. It was down, so I pulled it up (exposes a red area) and then pushed it back down again.
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  #13  
Old August 19th, 2010, 09:52 AM
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So you changed the ignition module but still won't start...did it act any different when trying to start? Will it still start/run (albeit shortly) on ether?
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  #14  
Old August 19th, 2010, 10:19 AM
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Charles Galpin
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No different. I didn't bother cranking it over a whole lot because it was late and the module only has one bolt holding it on right now (until I retrieve the one I dropped), but if anything it sounded less likely to take - might have just been that the battery was fully charged and maybe turning a bit faster.

Have not tried ether again yet. Will try swap out the ecu sometime today. Have ordered a injector test light and hope to borrow a pressure tester from Trevor. Need to do the CTS test too.

On the bright side I cleaned a test patch of paint on one of the fenders - cleaned up nicely.
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  #15  
Old August 19th, 2010, 01:17 PM
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Charles Galpin
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Is this normal?

I'm hoping I'm on to the root cause here. Given I can get it to start/run with ether (with old ignition module/ecu or known good ones) I think at least for the purposes of getting it to start and run the electronics are ok. So I tried crimping the return line right after the pressure regulator to induce pressure and it made no difference.

So I undid the fuel filter (does not look original) and turned the key to the run position. The pump runs and a healthy squirt of fuel comes out until the pump stops.

However when I turn the key into the start position the flow slows then stops as I crank it over. Doesn't seem right to me. Any idea what to go after to figure out why the fuel pump is not getting the signal?

I need to look under the binnacle, but this truck has an alarm system that is half installed, half ripped out. I am wondering if maybe it has an immobilizer function wired into it.

At the very least I should be able to run a jumper wire to the fuel pump to force it to keep pumping, and see if she runs then.
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Old August 19th, 2010, 01:20 PM
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The only other thing I can think of is that the pick up in the dizzy is causing it. There is some weird thing where below a certain rpm the signal comes from one source and above it comes from another. Frank explained it to me, but I forget.

Ditch the alarm asap.
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  #17  
Old August 19th, 2010, 02:11 PM
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A common way to bypass immobilizer circuits is to disconnect the battery, turn the ignition switch on and then reconnect the battery .. This is so the alarm doesn't immobilize when you are driving.

Worth a try!
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  #18  
Old August 19th, 2010, 02:25 PM
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Ok I'll give it a try at some point. I nipped up to take a look see if there were any obvious points the alarm wiring mated to the stock wiring (none that I can tell without opening the binnacle) and the little resistor taped to the harness going to the MAF fell off in my hand (both ends rusted).

So Lucas RD953066 is what it has on it. From http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/Rover-14CUX-EFI.htm :

"(This is NOT a "Tune Resistor".)

When visually inspecting the EFI Cable Harness Assembly, one unusual component that's particularly conspicuous is the resistor that Rover included on the Engine Speed sense circuit. This resistor should NOT be confused with the Tune Resistor. This circuit is the only connection between the ignition system and the fuel injection system. A damaged or loosely connected resistor would likely result in an open circuit, leaving the ECU wondering about engine speed.

In our example system this resistor is marked "Lucas", "RD953066", "83630A", and "892Q". The resistor should provide about 6.8k Ohm resistance. "

Any chance this is telling the ECU to cut off fuel? I read some other post on landroversonly.com that says this just reduces the voltage to the coil.
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  #19  
Old August 19th, 2010, 02:43 PM
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sounds like you found it-was it all corroded up or did your big self break it ?
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  #20  
Old August 19th, 2010, 02:48 PM
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Charles Galpin
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Yeah that's the one. I think I just disturbed the rust holding it in place .

I need my D90 to take the trailer back this evening so I'm a little wary of pulling me to see if that solves it, but hoping this is it.
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