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  #21  
Old November 30th, 2010, 05:20 PM
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yes and yes, thank you!!! I guess if I can't get this set up to work I will swap the mallory dist and coil in and see what happens. Thats plan B.
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  #22  
Old November 30th, 2010, 07:40 PM
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OK, well lets start with the checks out of the workshop manual before we get ahead of ourselves.

On your multimeter there are really only 2 settings we need to be concerned with. One is DC Voltage, which may be labeled VDC or have a solid line with a dashed line above it. You don't want a setting with a wavy line, that's AC. The other setting is resistance, measured in Ohms, which may have the greek Omega symbol, or say "OHMS". If it's not a fancy "auto-ranging" digital meter, you may also have to select the range. Since we are looking for 12 Volts DC on most of these checks, choose the VDC setting that has 12 volts in it. For our resistance checks, we need to see between 2,000 and 5,000 ohms (2k - 5k). If this is too basic and you know all this stuff, sorry!

For all of these checks, leave all the original connectors on while measuring unless mentioned otherwise.

First some voltage checks.

1) Measure your battery voltage right at the battery posts. Should be more than 11.5 Volts.

2) Next, if the leads on your meter will reach, turn on the ignition and measure the voltage from the positive connector on the coil and the negative post on the battery. If the negative lead won't reach all the way to the battery, use the engine block. Make sure the connector on the coil is still attached. The voltage should be no less than 1 volt from the reading obtained directly from the battery.

3) If that looks OK, we are then going to look at the voltage on the negative side of the coil to the same ground point as you used in check 2. It also should be no less than 1 volt from your original battery reading.

If those are all OK, that means you are getting good voltage to the coil, and that the coil doesn't have a short or open circuit in it. If there is a problem in voltage in test 2, there is a wiring problem from the ignition switch. If there is a voltage problem in test 3 (and not test 2) there is a problem with the coil.

Next, if everything has checked out so far:

4) Test the voltage from one of the assembly screws on the "ignition amplifier" which is the box on the side of the distributor, to the same point you have been using for tests 2 and 3. You should get practically nothing, less than 0.1 volts. If you have higher voltage than 0.1 volts, your ignition amplifier has lost it's own ground.

5) TURN OFF THE IGNITION and test the voltage from the positive connector on the battery to the negative connector on the coil. You should get zero volts. Next, leave the meter connected (along with all the other connectors) and turn on the ignition and attempt to start the truck. The voltmeter should increase just above zero volts. It may jump up while the ignition is on but not cranking, that's OK. But once you start cranking it should be just above zero.

6) Disconnect the voltage amplifier from the distributor so that all you have is the connector sticking out of the side of the distributor from the rotor pick-up. Switch your voltmeter to the "Ohms" setting and place the leads into the two pins of the connector on the distributor. You should be reading between 2,000 and 5,000 ohms.

If all of your tests so far have come back OK, re-assemble everything and try starting. Make sure you have left on all of the connectors while testing, with the exception of the distributor pick-ups.

If the engine doesn't start, disconnect the coil high voltage (spark) wire from the center of the distributor and hold it just a little bit from the engine block. Have someone crank the ignition and see if you witness spark.

Let us know if any of the tests up this point are bad, or if they are all OK. If you run into snags with the meter, just shout and we can help you out!
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  #23  
Old November 30th, 2010, 08:02 PM
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Wow thanks, I will print this out and try this tonight (if I can stand the 30 degree temp were having in LA) and will post my results. And its not remedial at all because I am inept to all things technical hehe Thank you again! Real quick, as far as those screws that hold the ignition amplifier onto the distributor body, I got some of that white gunk that comes with the ignition module on the screws, would that screw up the ground??
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  #24  
Old November 30th, 2010, 08:08 PM
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Neil,

navydevildoc gave you some greta tests. I also have a NAS Defender 93-95 work shop manual and a 94 Disco workshop manual. The 94 Disco had the same engine and set up as your 94 Def90.

When you replaced the pickup coil, did you set the air gap? It should be .20-.35 mm.

ALso, don't worry about the white gunk. It is a thermal paste, used to make sure there is good heat transfer out of the module.

Scott
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  #25  
Old November 30th, 2010, 08:11 PM
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Yep he sure did, can't thank him enough, beers on me someday! I thought the dwell was suppost to be set at .010? At least thats what my searches have yielded, guess it wouldn't hurt, I will try .20 and see what happens. Thanks
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  #26  
Old November 30th, 2010, 08:17 PM
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Check your units. .20 - .35 mm is about .010 inches.
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  #27  
Old November 30th, 2010, 08:26 PM
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ahhh, ok lemme double check my feeler guage just in case I did something stupid lol
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  #28  
Old December 27th, 2010, 12:57 PM
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So I just got rid of the Lucas distributor and the lucas coil/ignition module and installed a mallory distributor and ballastless coil this weekand and its running. unplugged the vaccum advance, set the timing, then put the advance hose back on and I had a little pinging during the first couple times around the block underload but now the pinging is gone. I no longer hear pinging, guess the distributor or engine self adjusts? Wierd. Anyway its running now, although the coil did get kinda hot when I idled the thing for 30 minutes, wonder if its normal. Oh well I'll call mallory and bug them again. thanks all.
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  #29  
Old December 27th, 2010, 01:31 PM
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Jake K.
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Sounds like the pick-up plate in the dizzy took a poop on ya! With all the changing parts you did you should have a new system at this point. If it ever occurs again check and make sure that the coil has a good ground. I mean the bolt holes where the coil is mounted and make sure that the holes are clean and the bolts holding it on are clean of corrosion. Diode grease/silicone spray every connection you can find just to give it that little bit more of protection. Also make sure your feeler gauge is non-metalic(copper/brass). Otherwise you'll get false readings.
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  #30  
Old December 27th, 2010, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roverchef View Post
Sounds like the pick-up plate in the dizzy took a poop on ya! With all the changing parts you did you should have a new system at this point. If it ever occurs again check and make sure that the coil has a good ground. I mean the bolt holes where the coil is mounted and make sure that the holes are clean and the bolts holding it on are clean of corrosion. Diode grease/silicone spray every connection you can find just to give it that little bit more of protection. Also make sure your feeler gauge is non-metalic(copper/brass). Otherwise you'll get false readings.
Those all seemed fine, I checked all the grounds, the problem was this, one of the new rover ignition parts (coil, ignition module or base pick up) was no good, so I changed all those 3 parts with new items, checked all the leads which were fine and because one of those (new) parts were bad, I couldn't get it started, so I got so fed up and put in the mallory distributor and ballestless coil and now everythings good to go. I'm gonna order a spare e-spark module and cap/rotor now b4 something happens haha.
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  #31  
Old December 27th, 2010, 01:59 PM
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Good to hear it. Sorry I was late on the post. I always miss all the fun stuff. In the future I would recommend replacing one thing at a time just so you can find out exactly what it causing the problem and in the end if you still want replace it all you can. Kinda sounds like you work for the "Stealership"....replace it all and hopefully that will fix it? I'm just play'n with ya. Glad to hear you got it running. As far as your "pinging" goes....check your timing again just to make sure it didn't move and run some hi-octane it. It shouldn't self-adjust. What's your timing @? The older motors seem to like 10/BTDC on premium fuel.
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  #32  
Old December 27th, 2010, 02:18 PM
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I just set it on the mark I made before which I think is 6 degree BTDC? I always run high octane, but if it comes back I will do what is recommended from this page http://www.noroads.com/defender90/pr...distributor.ht , dial the advance all the way down with a allen key and leave it there, the tech at mallory said not to touch the advance on the unilite because he said its already factory set for the rover and seeing how the light pinging has mysteriously gone away for now (mabye the diaphram was stiff when new) I'll just keep it as it is until it comes back.
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  #33  
Old July 19th, 2011, 10:20 AM
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Hi, I'm having very similar issues with 94 d-90 not starting and went thru the workshop manual but have not been able to resolve the issue. A few things to note: relo kit installed 2.5 years ago, just had a mechanic work on the truck to chase down no-start and ended up replacing fuel pump but not sure if he fooled with the ignition wiring during his diagnostics. It did run for a few weeks after the work then progressively got worse until it died completely. Starter cranks but no start. I pulled the lead off the center of the distributor cap (from coil) and placed it near engine block and when i operate starter i get no spark, but when i turn key off i get a single spark (weird?!). So here are the results according to your suggestions.....


Quote:
Originally Posted by navydevildoc View Post
OK, well lets start with the checks out of the workshop manual before we get ahead of ourselves.

On your multimeter there are really only 2 settings we need to be concerned with. One is DC Voltage, which may be labeled VDC or have a solid line with a dashed line above it. You don't want a setting with a wavy line, that's AC. The other setting is resistance, measured in Ohms, which may have the greek Omega symbol, or say "OHMS". If it's not a fancy "auto-ranging" digital meter, you may also have to select the range. Since we are looking for 12 Volts DC on most of these checks, choose the VDC setting that has 12 volts in it. For our resistance checks, we need to see between 2,000 and 5,000 ohms (2k - 5k). If this is too basic and you know all this stuff, sorry!

For all of these checks, leave all the original connectors on while measuring unless mentioned otherwise.

First some voltage checks.

1) Measure your battery voltage right at the battery posts. Should be more than 11.5 Volts. measured 12.25 V

2) Next, if the leads on your meter will reach, turn on the ignition and measure the voltage from the positive connector on the coil and the negative post on the battery. If the negative lead won't reach all the way to the battery, use the engine block. Make sure the connector on the coil is still attached. The voltage should be no less than 1 volt from the reading obtained directly from the battery. measured 11.5 V

3) If that looks OK, we are then going to look at the voltage on the negative side of the coil to the same ground point as you used in check 2. It also should be no less than 1 volt from your original battery reading. measured 6 V

If those are all OK, that means you are getting good voltage to the coil, and that the coil doesn't have a short or open circuit in it. If there is a problem in voltage in test 2, there is a wiring problem from the ignition switch. If there is a voltage problem in test 3 (and not test 2) there is a problem with the coil. I thought it was coil after this test and replaced it but I'm getting same results with new coil too.

Next, if everything has checked out so far:

4) Test the voltage from one of the assembly screws on the "ignition amplifier" which is the box on the side of the distributor, to the same point you have been using for tests 2 and 3. You should get practically nothing, less than 0.1 volts. If you have higher voltage than 0.1 volts, your ignition amplifier has lost it's own ground. measured 0.3-0.5 V. does this point to a bad ignition module or can i just run a jumper wire from the bracket its bolted to (relo kit) to a better ground? I also noticed that with the key in 'on' position for a few minutes the amp module and coil get very hot.

5) TURN OFF THE IGNITION and test the voltage from the positive connector on the battery to the negative connector on the coil. You should get zero volts. measured 12 V!! (unless I'm really crazy) Next, leave the meter connected (along with all the other connectors) and turn on the ignition and attempt to start the truck. The voltmeter should increase just above zero volts. It may jump up while the ignition is on but not cranking, that's OK. But once you start cranking it should be just above zero.

6) Disconnect the voltage amplifier from the distributor so that all you have is the connector sticking out of the side of the distributor from the rotor pick-up. Switch your voltmeter to the "Ohms" setting and place the leads into the two pins of the connector on the distributor. You should be reading between 2,000 and 5,000 ohms.

If all of your tests so far have come back OK, re-assemble everything and try starting. Make sure you have left on all of the connectors while testing, with the exception of the distributor pick-ups.

If the engine doesn't start, disconnect the coil high voltage (spark) wire from the center of the distributor and hold it just a little bit from the engine block. Have someone crank the ignition and see if you witness spark.

Let us know if any of the tests up this point are bad, or if they are all OK. If you run into snags with the meter, just shout and we can help you out!

One more question....from the -side of coil there is one wire going to ignition module and another running into a harness. On the +side there are 3 wires: one goes to ignition module, another goes into a harness and the third goes into some strange looking thing on the wheel well (pic attached). Is this a ground? could that be right?


Thanks!
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  #34  
Old July 21st, 2011, 09:35 AM
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Bump....any advice here?
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  #35  
Old July 21st, 2011, 12:16 PM
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Jake K.
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That little thing is a diode to help keep your radio from fuzzing from ignition static...it's not going to stop it from running.
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  #36  
Old July 21st, 2011, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roverchef View Post
That little thing is a diode to help keep your radio from fuzzing from ignition static...it's not going to stop it from running.
thanks i never would have guessed something like that.

I emailed the info i posted above to AB and Jim Randall replied that it sounds like the pickup in the distributor is bad. Does this sound right, according to what i've found? I saw they have a distributor base plate and pickup on their site for $140. Is that an easy DIY?
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  #37  
Old July 21st, 2011, 03:03 PM
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also i ran a test of the resistance on the pickup coil and got ~3 kohm. would that indicate the pickup is ok? since i have a relocated module i actually took the measurement at the two prong connector on the end of the wire coming from the distributor to the ignition module - hope thats good enough.

and could a bad ground on the ignition module be the cause for all this? i measured 0.5 V expecting 0-0.1 V. if so can i just add a jumper wire to connect to a ground i know is good?
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  #38  
Old July 22nd, 2011, 09:41 AM
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A bad ground is the root of most evil on these rigs. Check all grounds just to make sure cause a missing(bad) ground could cause a no start and give false readings in other places. Start with the easiest and go backwards. Most problems are simple...people just like to over-think them.
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  #39  
Old May 30th, 2017, 10:36 PM
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Holy Zombie thread, batman! Figured no use in starting more "no start" threads... that's all we need here.

Back story: 1995 RRC w/ 4.2 - 222,850 miles. Starts, runs, drives fine. Valves were shot. hemorrhaging oil, etc.
Swapped in a 4.6L block (rebuilt) w/ new heads. I retained the 4.2L's front cover, serp drive, manifold, etc. So essentially, everything is exactly as it was pre-swap, just new starter, new block, new heads. ZERO wiring or electrical components have been replaced.

Further back story. I acquired this truck with about 165k or so, it was running a mallory hifiire dizzy and coil set up. I had a bad timing and intermittent stalling/fail to start issue on the truck, and I put the whole ignition system back to stock. The black/white leads to coil still retain two lucas resistors. all of the mallory components have been stripped from the truck, and to my knowledge, it is stock. (sans 2 resistors? not sure if this is stock, can take voltage readings... perhaps they limited the 12v to 9v, and now that it is "stock" i'm limiting 9 volts to ... 4 or 4.5v? but, the truck ran no problems for 40k mi or so with the two chicklets)

Symptoms: finished engine swap, roughly timed rotor w/ #1 TDC on compression stroke... wouldn't start. Pulled plug, no spark. Pulled Coil output HT, got weak spark for a minute, now no spark at all.

Known:
Zero Spark w/ spark plug #1 grounded to manifold
Zero spark from coil output HT wire when held at 1/8" standoff to exhaust manifold.

Diagnosis uncovered the following:
8k ohms resistance between two posts on dizzy amplifier. So, I switched out distributors with one that had an amplifier that read 3700 ohms across the two contacts. I get almost the same reading when I test the wires that lead to that amp from the coil, so the continuity in that 20" harness on those two wires is good.

I get within .5v of the same reading when I compare battery (-) and Battery (+) against Battery (-) and Coil (+) or Battery (-) and Coil (-). So that checks out.

**Issue** - I am getting full battery voltage when I check Battery (+) to Coil (-). My reading here and elsewhere indicated that I should get 0 voltage. I am getting 12v grounding through the solid white wire on the coil. When cranking, this drops to 3.8 or 3.9 volts.

Question I need help with - THe white wire to Coil - It's allowing route to ground and I understand that it should not. that wire (thin, old, hard, shitty) goes into the main harness - where should I look next down stream of that bad boy? Is there a way to jump that circuit from the... ECU/filter... to check/diagnose?

Thanks for reading, and thanks in advance for any solutions.
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  #40  
Old May 31st, 2017, 08:10 AM
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Remove chicklets and try for spark? ... will that harm ecu?


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