new oversized intercooler for 200 Tdi - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old June 9th, 2011, 01:56 AM
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Jason Zolezzi
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new oversized intercooler for 200 Tdi

How involved is replacing the intercooler with an Alisport or some other performance enhancing unit? Besides what I have heard about fuel pump and tuning what other details are involved? How much is this really going to enhance performance? some people say you can get 140 or 150 HP others say 120. So what is the real deal? I dont mind not tearing up the street but the thought of, as Tony S so accurately put it, having the acceleration of a retiree pushing a walker might get old. So what's the straight dope?
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  #2  
Old June 9th, 2011, 02:27 AM
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Jamie Austin
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You can get nearly 140bhp just by cranking up the boost and fuelling, BUT... the larger intercooler will stop your engine from going into meltdown.

I had a full width allisport one on my old 300 90. I don;'t know what power i ever had out of it, but had the boost set at about 18~20psi, and the fuelling set at the slightly smokey side of max, and it went well enough. used to just turn the fuelling back at every annual inspection then turn it back up again.
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Old June 9th, 2011, 02:39 AM
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18-20 PSI? I thought 15 was appropriate if you didn't want to go full meltdown?

Jayz will you be going with or without a winch bumper? Two different models and even higher 'advertised' BHP increase with non winch/AC version.
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  #4  
Old June 9th, 2011, 08:34 AM
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Tony Sims
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Depending on the intercooler, the install can be as simple as replacing the stock unit, or a bit more involved due to additional piping. Some of the aftermarket ones are stock form factor with thicker core, others like Jim and Jason speak of go across the front of the radiator.

With a little work you'll be storming the on-ramps faster than a charging Galapagos tortoise!
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  #5  
Old June 9th, 2011, 09:07 AM
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Jason Zolezzi
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I do plan to eventually put a winch but no A/C. I gues I need to stop over thinking all this crap and just go for it. If I don't
like it after I get it I can sell it to someone or swap engines. Tony, you'r cracking me up. The mental picture I got of a big tortoise painted blue scooting along the on ramp made my spit out my red bull
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  #6  
Old June 9th, 2011, 09:15 AM
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Tony Sims
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I'm taking the piss a bit, Jason -- the TDis aren't *that* slow. They can make merging speeds fine, and will cruise at 70-75 all day. When things get steep, it really comes down to what you have in terms of gearing, tire size, etc., and obviously a 110 weighs more than a 90.
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[appropriated from Ren Ching] Most faults can usually be traced to the badge on the grill.
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This is straight out of the Manual for Build Builders.
Tony
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  #7  
Old June 9th, 2011, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TS888 View Post
I'm taking the piss a bit, Jason -- the TDis aren't *that* slow. They can make merging speeds fine, and will cruise at 70-75 all day. When things get steep, it really comes down to what you have in terms of gearing, tire size, etc., and obviously a 110 weighs more than a 90.
X2
Tdi's may not have great acceleration, but they make up for it in power and torque.
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Old June 9th, 2011, 01:33 PM
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I know next to nothing about diesels, so what you would get if you added the intercooler to tuned heads/injector pump?

Anyone have experience with the Turner or Motor & Diesel tuned kits?
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Old June 9th, 2011, 03:13 PM
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I'm not sure what you are after. Have you driven a Tdi Defender or a V8 one for that matter? If you haven't, I would suggest finding one to try before proceeding with either choosing one or worrying about enhanced performance. I would also try to be realistic about how you will use the vehicle. That is really the best way to pick between the diesel and gas engines, transmissions, and gearing.
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  #10  
Old June 10th, 2011, 12:47 AM
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Jason Zolezzi
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The purpose of this truck is just to get me around, to hunting spots, dive spots camping and the occasional Tahoe run when it's dumping snow. By no means am I expecting to hot rod around, I just want to get as much as I can out of the motor without compromising the longevity of the engine. I have driven a 3.9 defender and many other diesel cars and trucks, in fact my first car was a diesel VW Rabbit pick up. that thing must have been a 1.2 but it got me 45 miles a gallon. It doesn't matter, I have done it. A 200 Tdi is it. I will learn to love it
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  #11  
Old June 10th, 2011, 08:10 AM
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Tony Sims
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I think you'll be happy. The TDi engines just feel "right" in a LR to me. Fits the character of the truck.
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[appropriated from Ren Ching] Most faults can usually be traced to the badge on the grill.
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Originally Posted by chris snell
This is straight out of the Manual for Build Builders.
Tony
1984 110 "Smokey" (sold)
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  #12  
Old June 10th, 2011, 08:58 AM
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The purpose of the intercooler is to increase the density of (reduce the temperature of) the air going into the cylinders. Theoretically speaking, twice the air means twice the power - it is a linear scale. The amount of fuel needed for maximum power is set for a given amount of air. The stock engine is supposed to make 107-111ish when new, for a 15 year old engine, it's probably at 100 or less. Will upgrading the intercooler and fueling result in 40% more power output? Probably not. The turbo will probably need swapping out at that point (t3 frame, 60 trim?) Just from what sounds believable, a 5% or 8% power increase seems more likly to me.

A 200tdi is fine, I was lucky enough to find one, but if you can manage a 300tdi or td5, they are even "better" as far as power and economy goes :
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Old June 10th, 2011, 11:51 AM
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Jason Zolezzi
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I thought, from what I have read, that the 200 gets better mileage. Anyways it doesn't matter now
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  #14  
Old June 10th, 2011, 05:11 PM
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Mike Hammond
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200 tdi is a more durable engine, td5 more powerful but less economic, 300 tdi built down to a price - pressed steel cam belt wheels as opposed to solid steel wheels on the 200
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  #15  
Old June 13th, 2011, 01:35 PM
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Dave C
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The Stock intercoolers on all land rovers are terrible. There are very few internal 'fins' (also known as turbulators) which are what promote the charge air to give up its heat. That said - at least they have some fins - the TD5 disco intercooler has no internal fins at all. It is a really, really bad (but cheap) design...

Any decent aftermarket core will be twice as good as the stock unit for cooling the charge air, so long as it has some well designed turbulators to take heat out of the air.

The T2 is running waaaaaaay outside of the efficiency islands at 15psi. It'll work, and make power - but it is also taking a lot of energy to drive it. If you want a stonking turbo that'll spool like the stock turbo, but is still efficient even at 25+ psi, look at the GT 20 56...
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Old June 13th, 2011, 02:24 PM
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Doug Crowther
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TS888 View Post
I think you'll be happy. The TDi engines just feel "right" in a LR to me. Fits the character of the truck.
Couldn't agree more. I have a 4.0 liter Disco SE7 and it just feels weird after driving the 300 tdi 130.
1) it feels slower (granted the a/c is on and the trans is an automatic)
2) the handling characteristics aren't as confidence inspiring despite lower profile tires, abs brakes, being 5 feet shorter,etc.

not harshing on disco's or V8's but theres a reason even I somehow evolved to driving a tdi defender. having both makes comparison easy.

I had a full width intercooler on a defender 200 tdi engine. As others have said the intercooler lets you up fueling. Not much can be done with the 200 tdi turbo as far as upping boost-the turbo doesn't much more than 12.5 psi. I found plumbing the waste gate signal to the intake manifold made more difference than shortening the waste gate actuator rod. I dont have any idea what the hp was that I had it turned up to was but I had James Bond quality smoke cloud capability. I turned it down before selling it to Rugbier and he later came by and had me take it back to pretty much stock tune before he sold it on the Az. Just make sure you fit an egt/pyrometer forward of the turbo before starting down the slippery path/quest for more

There is virtually no seat of the pants difference between getting in a stock 200tdi 110 and a 300tdi 110. In my experience the 200 gets slightly better economy- not by much.
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