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  #21  
Old March 2nd, 2010, 11:55 PM
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Andrew Najarian
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Well, I tried to take a couple of screen shots for you, but they may be difficult to see what I was pointing out. I tried to "Highlight" the relevant sections in the pictures. You are looking for something that says whether or not the switch has "Alternator Field Disconnect" or AFD. In the one picture, they used symbols with a separate key, so I can't really say where you'll find it, but the info should be there either on the retailer's site, manufacturer's site, or even on the packaging itself if you still have it.
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  #22  
Old March 3rd, 2010, 07:16 AM
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Bill Adams
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ACR thingy from Worst Marine

>The ACR from West Marine does the same thing as the Yandina, doesn't it?

Automatic Charging Relay:http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs...classNum=12106

Nothing really wrong with this setup, except that it retains the dubious 1,2,BOTH,OFF switch. Also costs twice as much and needs more cabling. The Blue Sea Systems ACR does not have the optional combine feature that the Yandina has, which is why they put the switch with the "combine batteries" or "BOTH" function in the picture.
With the Yandina, you can run a simple on off switch to control combining batteries. There is a "remote" terminal on the Yandina combiner for this. With this device the 1,2,BOTH,OFF switch is eliminated along with its cabling.

>I'm very happy with my Yellow Top.

If you're happy, I'm happy. Just saying there's way more battery in a similar sized Deka AGM than an Optima.
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  #23  
Old March 3rd, 2010, 10:49 AM
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John B.
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While talking about battery isolators.... I like this one. http://www.powerstream.com/battery-isolator.htm Simple, works well and can take high pass through loads without damage, which is useful in our application.
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  #24  
Old March 3rd, 2010, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o2batsea View Post
Just saying there's way more battery in a similar sized Deka AGM than an Optima.

What model are you using??
I'm getting pretty fed up with Optimas myself.
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  #25  
Old March 3rd, 2010, 12:42 PM
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Jim McIlvaine
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Hello, I noticed your conversation regarding battery installations in passenger compartments and wanted to help out. Our batteries can be mounted in a variety of positions, but more importantly, they are sealed, so the chance of acid damage in you engine compartment (or elsewhere) is minimized.

Although our batteries are sealed, it is important that any lead-acid battery has proper ventilation. ALL lead-acid batteries can vent gas. Traditional wet batteries do this immediately when recharged, since they are not sealed. Sealed lead-acid batteries like Optimas and all other “dry cell” AGM batteries have safety release valves that should only vent if they are seriously overcharged.

Under normal operating conditions, an AGM battery will not vent gas. Since alternators or chargers can fail, the safest and correct mounting method for trunks and passenger compartments is to make sure that any possible gas venting will escape to the outside of the vehicle. All vehicles with original equipment battery locations in trunks or passenger compartments will have a vent provision that should be used. Optima group 27, 51, 78, 34C, and 31 batteries all have ports for connecting a vent hose.

Although people do it anyway, we would never recommend installing an unvented battery in any enclosed space, because there’s a legitimate, albeit unlikely, safety risk involved.

For example, IF there is a voltage regulator failure, and IF the battery is severely overcharged, and IF this goes unnoticed, and IF the battery vents because the internal pressure exceeds the release pressure of the vents, the gasses are both flammable and toxic. This may sound like a lot of “ifs,” but attorneys and engineers get paid to plan for every worst-case scenario.

ECR, I'm sorry to hear you're not satisfied with our products. Is there any specific issue that I can assist you with? If anyone else has any other battery-related questions, I’ll do my best to answer them.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries
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  #26  
Old March 3rd, 2010, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OptimaJim View Post
ECR, I'm sorry to hear you're not satisfied with our products. Is there any specific issue that I can assist you with? If anyone else has any other battery-related questions, I’ll do my best to answer them.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries
Jim,
send me your contact information, or call me here at the shop
207-594-8086
or
info@eastcoastrover.com
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  #27  
Old March 3rd, 2010, 03:48 PM
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Bill Adams
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>What model are you using??

Deka Intimidator group 31. Optima's Blue Top G31 can't compare. It's about ten percent lighter (less lead) and therefore has lower reserve capacity than the Deka. I dunno about price. That's usually the last thing I look at as far as batteries go.

If you need a G27, try the Deka Sea Mate...pretty much the same as the Intimidator. It's a whopping ten pounds heavier than the Optima G27.

Always buy batteries by the pound and not by some oddball meaningless number like CCA. Weight and reserve capacity. That's what counts.

You often have to call around for the Deka batteries.

Alternately, Trojan batteries and if you have plenty of money Rolls/Surette. The Rolls ~G31 AGM weighs about 100 pounds. Ferkin unreal. About $500. Will last you the rest of your life tho...
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  #28  
Old March 4th, 2010, 09:17 AM
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I would be very interested in knowing the concerns ECR has with Optima and Jim's respone. I was just looking into a dual battery setup and was going to add another yellow top.

I have a yellow top from 2002 that has never failed me yet. As far as I am concerned, they are top notch.
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  #29  
Old March 4th, 2010, 09:55 AM
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Mike Hansen
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Jim,

I've used optama's for years; My Red top in the wife's Disco 2 has lasted 9 years and still starts and charges as new.

I have had 4 yellow tops over the last 5 years 3 have failed after 18 months. 2 in my truck and 1 in my dad’s truck.

I am using a national Luna split charging system, installed after the first failure. I started over with 2 yellow tops, and now one has failed. The failures are a rapid discharge with very small amp draw. The National Luna system comes with a battery monitor system.

Any thoughts would be appreciated

Cheers

Mike
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  #30  
Old March 4th, 2010, 10:34 AM
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My optima concerns are about batteries, new batteries, that will not come back after being moderately discharged. I have sent my concerns to optimajim via email.

I have heard the entire hocus-pocus stuff about how you have to bring the batteries back to life, but we don't have to do that with other batteries and my customers do not have the ability to do that kind of charging at their homes, so IMO it is a concern.

I have no data to back this up, but the older optimas I run and great. The newer ones... not so much. I don't know if they changed something or what. I have had the same yellow tops in my boat for many many years and anything I have with an old optima is great. The stuff I have with newer ones have issues.
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  #31  
Old March 4th, 2010, 10:44 AM
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Bill Adams
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>Any thoughts would be appreciated

You need a dual battery system if you: Run lots of electrical loads with the engine off which would otherwise draw down the main battery. You use high amp devices such as winches, refrigerators, etc that draw down the start battery faster than your alternator can recharge it. You are away from civilization to the point that battery failure would be life threatening.

If you have a dual battery system, then you will want to isolate the second battery in such a way that the start battery will always be fully charged. Modern systems incorporate a VSR, or Voltage Sensing Relay which can automatically send charge current to the individual battery banks as needed. There are several successful ways to do this. No one particular way is better than another as long as the basic concept is adhered to; keep the start battery charged no matter what and keep it from discharging inadvertently.
One of the easiest to install and use is BEP marine's VSR: http://www.bepmarine.com/125-Amp-Vol...-166-1468.html which is a simple one wire hookup. There are several others on the market. Read more at BEPmarine.com, Yandina.com, Amplepower.com, defender.com, etc.
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  #32  
Old March 4th, 2010, 10:52 AM
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Mike Hansen
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Bill,

I get it about the dual system, thats why I have it.

I was looking for insite as to why all the failures.
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  #33  
Old March 4th, 2010, 11:55 AM
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Bill Adams
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>I was looking for insite (sic) as to why all the failures.

AGM batteries may be the latest in technology, but underneath it all, they are still flooded lead-acid batteries. The same thing that kills "flooded" batteries will kill an optima or any gel or AGM battery....overcharging, undercharging, deep draw down, and heat/cold cycling. Sulphation is the cancer that get's 'em. In some instances, an equalization charge can desulphate a dead battery. Ask Optima what kind of equalization charge cycle they recommend. Without detailed knowledge of your setup, I can't begin to guess why you are losing batteries.
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  #34  
Old March 9th, 2010, 11:24 PM
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97-D90-736, if you are considering a dual-battery configuration, it’s important that any batteries wired in parallel be the same age, size and type. Since so many of you run winches, I think it’s important to mention that RedTops should not be used in winching applications. Dual RedTops work great for starting vehicles with relatively-stock electrical demands. Those with winches, large stereos, auxiliary lighting and other significant electrical demands should always use YellowTops.

Mike, I’m sorry to hear about the trouble you’ve been having. Could you tell me what the key-off load is in the vehicles that have had issues? This video explains how to check this-
The reason I ask, is because National Luna indicates that although their system does not consume more than 40 milliamps in standby, they do recommend disconnecting the batteries in any system that sits more than a few weeks at a time, to prevent discharge-
http://www.nationalluna.com/support_bts.htm

A typical vehicle has a key-off load of about 25 milliamps. If your key-off load exceeds 100 milliamps, there is an electrical draw present, which can discharge a battery in a relatively-short amount of time. It’s also a good idea to re-check wiring, as there is no such thing as grounds that are “too good” and one-wire alternators are especially sensitive to good, quality grounds.

Bill indicated many of the typical causes of battery failure for both typical “flooded” lead-acid batteries and “dry” AGM-style batteries. The key to long battery life, regardless of brand or type, is maintaining at least 12.4 volts in your battery at all times. If you are planning on storing your vehicle for extended periods of time, a battery tender/maintainer is an excellent investment, which will help extend the life of your battery. If you elect not to use a tender or maintainer, it’s still a good idea to make sure batteries are fully-charged when a vehicle goes into storage and the voltage is checked periodically to maintain 12.4 volts.

It’s also a good idea to check your voltage again, when bringing your vehicle out of storage. If your battery needs to be charged, the best way to do that is with a battery charger. Relying on an alternator to recharge a deeply-discharged battery can lead to a cycle of dead batteries and jump-starts, until either the alternator or battery fails.

Most of the “bad” batteries returned to us today are just deeply-discharged and work fine when properly recharged. Most battery chargers work fine on Optimas, but most chargers will not charge any battery that has been discharged below 10.5 volts. If you do deeply-discharge an Optima below 10.5 volts, this video explains how to recover the battery-
I know this may seem unusual, but it does work-
http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6458259&postcount=110 http://www.naxja.org/forum/showpost.php?p=244739965&postcount=44

If you have any other questions, I’ll do my best to answer them.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries
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  #35  
Old March 10th, 2010, 12:15 AM
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Jim, so why not run dual Blue Top vs Yellow Tops?
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  #36  
Old March 10th, 2010, 09:34 AM
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Thanks Jim and Welcome to D-90 Source.

I still find it amazing the help and insight that can be found on this board.

I have learned more about batteries in the last week than I ever thought I needed to know.

Cheers

Mike
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  #37  
Old March 10th, 2010, 11:16 AM
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Completely agree!


Quote:
Originally Posted by mhansen View Post
Thanks Jim and Welcome to D-90 Source.

I still find it amazing the help and insight that can be found on this board.

I have learned more about batteries in the last week than I ever thought I needed to know.

Cheers

Mike
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  #38  
Old March 10th, 2010, 12:51 PM
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Carl Jonsson
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I spoke to a tech a Blue Sea Systems today who explained the purpose of the Alternator Field Disconnect a little but better to me. First off, he said, whether you have that feature or not you should never switch while running, period. The system I bought (add-a-battery) does not have it but I don't need it. I'm not going to switch while driving and I don't see how it could switch by accident. The alternator also has to have the option to hook up a disconnect. You can't use it if the alternator doesn't have that hook up. Does anyone know if the NAS D90 alternator has this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ini88 View Post
I really appreciate it. I'm not that good with electrics. I am going to read more up on it tonight to see what I have. I just installed it last night and it works. I have yet to go in between the switches while it is running so I will keep that in mind for which switch i have on and keep it there for the running time.

I thought I read that you can switch mid-stream, but I will double check and steer clear til I see if I can or not!
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  #39  
Old March 11th, 2010, 09:58 PM
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Hi Andrew, BlueTops are popular in applications where the threaded top posts are needed for additional accessories. Some applications also need the larger capacity of our group D31M battery, which is not available in a YellowTop. D27M and D34M BlueTops are identical internally to their YellowTop counterparts and 34M BlueTops are identical to their RedTop counterparts, but YellowTops and RedTops have three-year replacement warranties, while the BlueTop warranties are two years. If you have any other questions, please don’t hesitate to ask.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
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