New '86 ex-MOD 110 Need Help - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old September 11th, 2013, 12:45 AM
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New '86 ex-MOD 110 Need Help

Hello all,

So my 110 recently cleared customs and made its way into Ohio where it now sits as an expensive lawn ornament.

My dad drove it from MD to Ohio, about 500 miles, with no real problems except it has an extremely rough idle but had it up to around 60 mph and it seemed fine. Then we park it and it has a hard time starting, engine is turning but slowly and eventually catches.

The next day- I start the truck in neutral, clutch all the way down, and it starts chugging forward. A bit of smoke and it eventually catches but has a hard time doing so. I then have trouble putting it into 2nd. At a stop sign I put it in neutral then it won't go into any gear and stalled. I go to turn it on and nothing, the starter won't even engage. I try again, and the starter won't turn off- key is in my hand out of the ignition and its still spinning but engine isn't turning. We get it started and same thing happens about 5 miles later but the starter stays on for about 10 minutes and the rover seems to have giving up. We topped off the oil, let it cool for over an hour, and it starts.

A local, and very trustworthy, mechanic/farmer looks at it and says he can fix it. He looks at the starter, says its bad and recommends I order a new one. I get a new starter, he puts it in, bleeds the clutch for me which he said needed a lot of bleeding, fixes a broken fuel line, and informs me I have a bad ass truck

It runs like a bomb, smooth shifting (aside from 2nd to 3rd that had a little grinding) and starts on the first try... I love it.

That was yesterday, today I'm back to the exact same problems. Chugging forward, starter not engaging or not stopping even with key out. My guess is electrical but I'm in over my head. I'd love to learn how to fix it myself but I need some direction as my mechanical skills are sub-par. If the forum could shed some light on this I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks all!
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  #2  
Old September 11th, 2013, 07:44 AM
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Lets start with the model of the engine.

Not sure how the starter could have affected idle. I'd look more at things like ignition pieces - ignition coil, distributor, check strength of spark at the plugs, etc.
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  #3  
Old September 11th, 2013, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rijosho View Post
Lets start with the model of the engine.
It's going to be a 2.5 diesel N/A if it is an ex-MoD that isn't randomly special. It could be your ignition switch possibly? I had an issues where the entire switch was so worn that if the key got wiggled it would cutoff while the vehicle was running. Then if you wiggled it just right it would instantly start right up again. It is pretty old and has probably been heavily used in terms of being started a lot but maybe not a lot of miles overall.
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  #4  
Old September 11th, 2013, 09:51 AM
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Wow. Sounds like you could have multiple issues at once.

Ignition switch sounds like a good possibility, and you probably also have an issue with your clutch hydraulics (master/slave cyl and flex line).

None of that explains why your truck would "chug forward" when trying to start it in neutral though. That one baffles me.
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  #5  
Old September 11th, 2013, 10:14 AM
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Yes it is a diesel

I'll have to check to make sure that it was in fact in neutral and not partially in first, I have been having a hard time getting it fully into and out of gear. Regardless, say it was in first, why would it chug with the clutch fully depressed?
Could it be battery cables, I read somewhere they're pretty shoddy in defenders.
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  #6  
Old September 11th, 2013, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by byrnecc View Post
A local, and very trustworthy, mechanic/farmer looks at it and says he can fix it. He looks at the starter, says its bad and recommends I order a new one. I get a new starter, he puts it in, bleeds the clutch for me which he said needed a lot of bleeding, fixes a broken fuel line...
I am not a rover expert, but IMHO your starter was never bad. If the truck was actually lurching while starting, the first thing you should have looked at was the clutch, as a bad starter will not move a truck forward.

1. Check the clutch master adjustment. This is done by removing the 6 screws on top of the clutch pedal tower. There are two nuts. Make sure the nuts are adjusted to almost as far away from the clutch master as possible.

2. Rebleed clutch, try again.

A properly adjusted clutch that works for a little bit and constantly needs rebleeding probably needs a new master and slave.

Quote:
Originally Posted by byrnecc View Post
Regardless, say it was in first, why would it chug with the clutch fully depressed?
IMHO you are 99.99% looking at a clutch master or clutch slave cylinder problem.
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  #7  
Old September 11th, 2013, 10:48 AM
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- Check all battery connections.
- Check all ground connections.
- Check battery condition.
- Rebleed clutch.
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  #8  
Old September 11th, 2013, 11:09 AM
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If you have air in your clutch hydraulics or faulty components, sometimes you can get the clutch to work (at least intermittently) by pumping it several strokes before holding it down to attempt starting.

You can try bleeding it again, but I suspect you have a faulty master/slave. The aftermarket replacement parts on these tend to be of pretty low quality, and it is a very common failure.
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  #9  
Old September 11th, 2013, 11:26 AM
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Here's some suggestions.

The reason your starter is working off and on is you have a bad ground.
This is extremely bad and also dangerous as the starter searches for a ground all sorts of odd things can happen including fires. That's right things can catch on fire and burn the vehicle up.

With a bad ground the starter will try and ground itself where ever it can.
Those electrons need a place to go. Cables, wires, braided hoses, even fluids that carry electrons will be used as a source and that's where the danger is because it causes extreme heat (melt metal type heat).

Have replaced older radiators that heated up and melted the solder away, burnt up cables, braided hoses that fried, even had to replace the rubber radiator mounts that melted and burned from grounding heat.

The constant arc from gaining and loosing the ground or partial ground can sometimes cause the starter solenoid to stick and when it sticks, then the situation gets worse, because the ground draw then is constant and can only be stopped if the solenoid lets go or the positive battery cable is removed and the starter tapped with something heavy.

FIX THE GROUND BEFORE YOU ATTEMPT TO START THE 110 AGAIN !!!!

Next order a new clutch master cylinder, slave cylinder, and hose.
Replace all 3 and use Castrol dot 4 fluid.

If you still have further clutch problems, lurching, and so on, you'll have to remove the gearbox or engine to fix the issue.
Sometimes the main gearbox belhousing bolts come out and get jammed in the pressure plate, sometimes the clutch fork will fail, and sometimes the springs in the disk will come out and get caught in the clutch.
In any event if it is one of these issues of similar, you'll find it when you inspect the clutch mechanism, but most likely it's hydraulic, at least that's what I am hoping.

Hope this helps and good luck!
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  #10  
Old September 11th, 2013, 11:37 AM
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The manuals I bought are still in the mail and I've never worked on a defender before and my other experience is pretty limited.

How do I go about checking the ground/repairing it?

Thanks for all the help btw.
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  #11  
Old September 11th, 2013, 11:40 AM
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The negative cable runs from the battery to the chassis. Remove both ends, clean it up really well and make sure there is good contact.

There is also a cable, usually the metal web type, that runs from the chassis to the starter (or engine block, I can't remember for certain). Do the same thing with that.

Finally there is a short cable that runs from the starter to the engine block. Same deal there.
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Old September 11th, 2013, 11:43 AM
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It is very simple:

1. A fat braided ground strap attached from the engine block to the frame.
2. The negative battery connection grounded to the frame.

If you have both of these, then you have correct ("factory") ground for the starter.
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  #13  
Old September 11th, 2013, 11:56 AM
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There should be a ground wire from the starter motor to the block.
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  #14  
Old September 11th, 2013, 05:31 PM
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Took me a couple of hours but I disconnected all the grounds (battery to frame and engine to frame) and cleaned them. The battery connections looked fine and had some grease on them.

I used liquid wrench on the grounds because they were rusted on and wax-oyled over, thats not going be a fire issue is it?
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Old September 11th, 2013, 05:46 PM
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I tried starting and nothing, dash lights come on, driving lights etc work but no starter. Next step?
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  #16  
Old September 11th, 2013, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by byrnecc View Post
I tried starting and nothing, dash lights come on, driving lights etc work but no starter. Next step?
Jiggle the key.
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  #17  
Old September 11th, 2013, 06:06 PM
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still nothing but dash lights
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  #18  
Old September 11th, 2013, 06:11 PM
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Sorry, jumping late in this thread, but I assume you checked that all the fuses (specially those big ones in the engine compartment) are ok?
I make the assumption that the grounds are now all good.
If so, I'd check if you have 12V to the starter when you turn the key to start (probably needs two sets of hands for this one). Feels like you are not getting power to the starter solenoid (which should produce a click when you turn the key).
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  #19  
Old September 11th, 2013, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by byrnecc View Post
still nothing but dash lights
Funny that is exactly what mine does when the ground is bad. Sometimes just grabbing the ground cable where it connects to the chassis and twisting/rotating it will improve the contact enough to allow it to start.

You might also check your battery condition, and your positive lead as well.
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  #20  
Old September 11th, 2013, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meatblanket View Post
Funny that is exactly what mine does when the ground is bad. Sometimes just grabbing the ground cable where it connects to the chassis and twisting/rotating it will improve the contact enough to allow it to start.

You might also check your battery condition, and your positive lead as well.
I cleaned and sanded all the connectors and where they connect to the frame, could it still be that? The battery looks fine too, could the positive lead be corroded internally? Because it looks fine at first glance.

I also just noticed a blow 15 A fuse in the cab. Could this be the culprit?
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