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  #61  
Old November 8th, 2013, 03:53 PM
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Okay so I finally got around to doing that test. The starter is good, and everything else appears to be and I'm pretty sure it's this relay. Does anyone know where I can order one? On the side it had written 33375E 1586 12V
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  #62  
Old November 8th, 2013, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by byrnecc View Post
Okay so I finally got around to doing that test. The starter is good, and everything else appears to be and I'm pretty sure it's this relay. Does anyone know where I can order one? On the side it had written 33375E 1586 12V
how many poles on the the other side of the relay? I assume it is a 5-pin?

Any Bosch type 12V, 40A 5-pin relay will work
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  #63  
Old November 8th, 2013, 04:09 PM
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Yes, looks like a generic relay. There are no relays in the starting system though.
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  #64  
Old November 8th, 2013, 04:09 PM
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5 poles. Called rovers north and they have it but its green (I'm assuming thats a newer version) for $22 its just not listed on their website.

------ Follow up post added November 8th, 2013 04:11 PM ------

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Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
Yes, looks like a generic relay. There are no relays in the starting system though.
Really? On the wiring diagram its called "start relay" and it has wires running from the ignition switch to the starter motor? Is something different with mine?
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  #65  
Old November 8th, 2013, 04:17 PM
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Maybe it is then. In any case, that is a generic relay. Any auto parts store for a few dollars and 5 minutes of your time.
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  #66  
Old November 8th, 2013, 04:25 PM
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Awesome, it'll be nice to have it back on the road, thanks again for the help everyone
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  #67  
Old November 8th, 2013, 05:02 PM
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Good on you for not giving up, Conor.

The first project that I did on my new Ex-MOD was to replace every battery/ignition/alternator/ground cable. If there's a spot where water can get into a cable (and there often is), cables can corrode internally. I depend on my truck to take me many hundreds of miles from civilization and I can't chance an electrical failure so I replaced mine.

I wrote a how-to when I did this on my previous NAS Defender and you can find that here.

Since writing that post, I've changed a few techniques:

I no longer buy Sears PM-1 batteries. While my old PM-1 never gave out, I've read of several problems with them recently. I stay away from Optima batteries entirely. I'm a huge Odyssey fan and the PC2150 is beefy enough to run a fridge in the hot desert for a day and still start the truck the next day.

I now crimp my terminals instead of soldering them. I don't mess around with the hammer crimpers. I bought my Odyssey battery from a local battery store that serves commercial customers like golf courses (cart batteries), solar installers, etc. These guys had a big, badass crimper and a nice wire stripping tool that made it easy.

I also switched to high temperature ceramic (not PET) braided sleeving for runs within the engine bay. In particular, i used this for the cable that runs from the alternator to (if I recall correctly) the starter by going around the motor (avoiding the exhaust manifold). I don't know that this cable is really going to see that much heat but the ceramic sleeving helps me relax about it.

Like I mentioned in the how-to writeup, I am a big believe in marine-grade battery cable. The marine-grade stuff has individually tinned strands. That is, each strand of copper is coated in solder before being braided into a cable. These cables are more expensive per foot but far less likely to corrode. Do it right and do it once. I generally use one size bigger cable than came on from the factory. Not necessary but it makes me feel good. I use very fat 1 AWG cable for my winch because higher efficiency cable translates to greater pull power.
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  #68  
Old November 8th, 2013, 05:16 PM
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Thanks Chris, part of the reason I got a defender was so I would be able to learn as I go.

I've been hearing all over the forum to go with marine grade. I have A LOT of things that need fixing, replacing, upgrading etc so its a long process but whenever I can I order marine grade. I'll be home for December and January and hope to do work like your write up then, as in stuff that isn't essential yet but helps in the long run. I want to clean up the battery box and learn more about the wiring but its pretty slow having to teach myself from books etc.

As for the battery, I had an optima red top before and it just wouldn't die so I stuck with the brand.
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  #69  
Old November 8th, 2013, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by byrnecc View Post

As for the battery, I had an optima red top before and it just wouldn't die so I stuck with the brand.
Unfortunately, the Optima Co. was sold a few years ago and the web is full of bad battery stories ....so the new Red Tops are apparently not like the old.
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  #70  
Old November 8th, 2013, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Nomar View Post
Unfortunately, the Optima Co. was sold a few years ago and the web is full of bad battery stories ....so the new Red Tops are apparently not like the old.
Well damn, that would've been good to know las weekend. So Odysseys are the way to go now?
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  #71  
Old November 8th, 2013, 06:24 PM
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Well damn, that would've been good to know las weekend. So Odysseys are the way to go now?
Or the high end Sears Diehard from what I have been reading.
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  #72  
Old November 8th, 2013, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javelinadave View Post
Or the high end Sears Diehard from what I have been reading.
Now Sears seems to be another has-been. I've seen several reports on ExPo and elsewhere of PM-1s shitting the bed prematurely. They used to be made in the same factory as the Odysseys but I don't believe that to be the case now. They even look a bit more different than the PC2150s now. I don't know if Odyssey is the only good game in town but they've certainly been awesome in my experience.
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  #73  
Old November 8th, 2013, 07:42 PM
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You can turn the key on with the relay removed and connect a jumper wire from 30 to 87 to see if the starter engages. If it does not try from 30 to 87A.

Then you'll know if the relay is bad.

RN is a good source for genuine parts.
Waytech wire has genuine Bosch relays for about $5 that fit this application.
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  #74  
Old November 9th, 2013, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by byrnecc View Post
Well !@#$%^&*, that would've been good to know las weekend. So Odysseys are the way to go now?
Who knows-you may get lucky.

Another guy here swears that Sears Diehard Platinum Marines are in fact manufactured in the same plant as the Odyssey. I don't know if/when that changed. I am running a Diehard PM-2 in my Classic.
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  #75  
Old November 13th, 2013, 05:44 PM
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Apparently its not the relay. I put the new one in, nothing, tried again, got it started and warmed the engine. Turned if off and nothing again.

The starter was tested and is good. The ignition switch is new and wired properly unless I made a mistake putting the key component in but I doubt it because the dash lights go on. The connections to the relay have been redone and I put new connectors on to all parts of the starter.

Is there anything between the relay and the starter that I wouldn't know about? Are there other relays involved in starting? My batter cables seem fine and the connections look good too.

Robert I did that test, connected 30 to 87 and it started to turn over (wouldn't start b/c its very cold here and I didn't want to stress it)

Where should I go from here?

Thanks again for the help everyone, I'm learning a lot from all of this.
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  #76  
Old November 13th, 2013, 06:16 PM
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What exactly is not working? You need to follow the path of the voltage and see where it stops.
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  #77  
Old November 13th, 2013, 06:25 PM
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I turn the key and dash lights go on, hear faint clicks from relays I assume, but absolutely nothing to the starter. I go to the starter relay (I don't know if thats the correct name) and I connect 87 to 30, per Roberts advice a few posts up, and the starter goes.

I guess the problem is somewhere b/t the ignition switch and the relay but I don't know where or what could be doing that.
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  #78  
Old November 13th, 2013, 06:49 PM
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You then need to check for power at 85 or 86. If nothing there with the key in the start position, you need to follow that back until you find the problem. You may have the ignition switch wired wrong.
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  #79  
Old November 15th, 2013, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
You then need to check for power at 85 or 86. If nothing there with the key in the start position, you need to follow that back until you find the problem. You may have the ignition switch wired wrong.
I put in a new ground from the relay (thin black wire) and it starts every time now. Just made for a great weekend. Thanks everyone...now to start reassembling the dash
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  #80  
Old November 16th, 2013, 07:55 AM
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Glad the fix turned out to be relatively easy/cheap.
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